Originally Posted by perauto (Post 1078197)

I have never had any problems in our shop 2011 but we replaced the trans in our race car with a T-56. Under road race conditions the stock trans will over heat and fail. We did not want to add a cooler so we replaced the trans,Also a 2010 4.6 is a dog compared to a 11 5.0. On our Dyno our old shop car a 2010 GT with cams ,cold air ect only made 310 RWHP,for comparison our 11 Saleen/GT put down 371 RWHP stock.I love the Z's and G's but a stock 5.0 mustang will walk any stock Z in a strait line.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078209)

I am a big fan of the T-56! I know there is replacement kit available, so that's something to think about in the future if I decide to do some big build with this car.

But for my purposes right now it seems like the MT-82 is a fine transmission. I think with the Barton short shifter and mounting bracket it will make it even better. I'm not really a big fan of the semi-remote input style, but it hasn't given me any grief yet.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078186)

This is actually the source of a lot of controversy on the Mustang forums. It's largely a misrepresentation of the issue at hand. This article is based on one thread on a Mustang forum with around 3,000 posts in it from around 250 different users. At least 90% of these posts are attributable to select few. The article is very vague and just assumes that these 250 posters account for the "hundreds" of "broken" transmissions, which is not true.

So far we know of one user that actually had a defective transmission, which was replaced. Unfortunately he turned out to be the type of person who would make it his personal crusade to go after Ford because of it.

The rest of the complaints are about clunky shifts, mainly when cold. As anyone who has driven a manual transmission - especially a direct-input or semi-remote style - will tell you, on cold starts the 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 shifts can be a little rough. Anyone who has been on this forum since the early days will remember all the complaints from nubs we would have to respond to because they thought that clunky 1-2 shift was a grind and something was wrong with their transmission.

That's what's going on here. Inexperienced manual transmission drivers are reporting every little clunk they hear or feel and in many cases are misdiagnosing them as "grinds." A clunk is fine. After the transmission warms up it's buttery smooth.

I have 13,000 miles on mine so far and I have not had any issues. I definitely experience a cold shift clunk on the 1-2 over the winter or on chilly mornings, but never a grind or anything truly faulty. I am an experienced driver, though, so I know not to freak out and cry to Ford because the Getrag in my 412 HP car is making a little noise.

As a Z community, we went through these complaints in '09 (remember the infamous Modshack one-liner, "is this your first car?" :icon17:), and for the Mustang community they are dealing with the same thing in 2011. The 5.0 has brought on a lot of newer, inexperienced drivers to the Mustang ranks. And it so happens that these nub owners are some of the whiniest I have ever observed on an internet forum.

Why do you think I have 24k+ posts here? :p:icon17:

Overall I'd say the Getrag MT-82 is a fine transmission. Would it have been my number one choice? No, I'd have loved to see a beefier T56 in there with a true direct input, but it does seem like the MT82s are holding up to repeated abuse... there are a few 600-700whp cars running the stock transmission without any issues yet.

I think all this is is the 2009 370 6MT saga all over again. You have a few transmissions replaced for bum synchros (it happens) and then a lot of complaints from inexperienced drivers for things that the experienced guys know are normal. The only difference is that the Mustang is getting a lot more exposure because the nubs are more vocal and there are just more Mustangs out there (the MT-82 is used in the V6 and V8 models, so you have to figure at least 25k manual transmission 2011 models have been sold).

Oh, and there are a lot of old-guard Mustang "buy 'murrcan" owners that are just bitching because the transmission is designed by a German company and built in their Communist Chinese factory. I guarantee you if this was a Tremec (Mexico) there'd be far fewer complaints, because most good 'Murrcans have learned to accept that some goods can indeed be built in Mexico and Canada... 'cause we're attached to 'em and can supervise 'em, ya know? :facepalm:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078186)

This is actually the source of a lot of controversy on the Mustang forums. It's largely a misrepresentation of the issue at hand. This article is based on one thread on a Mustang forum with around 3,000 posts in it from around 250 different users. At least 90% of these posts are attributable to select few. The article is very vague and just assumes that these 250 posters account for the "hundreds" of "broken" transmissions, which is not true.

So far we know of one user that actually had a defective transmission, which was replaced. Unfortunately he turned out to be the type of person who would make it his personal crusade to go after Ford because of it.

The rest of the complaints are about clunky shifts, mainly when cold. As anyone who has driven a manual transmission - especially a direct-input or semi-remote style - will tell you, on cold starts the 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 shifts can be a little rough. Anyone who has been on this forum since the early days will remember all the complaints from nubs we would have to respond to because they thought that clunky 1-2 shift was a grind and something was wrong with their transmission.

That's what's going on here. Inexperienced manual transmission drivers are reporting every little clunk they hear or feel and in many cases are misdiagnosing them as "grinds." A clunk is fine. After the transmission warms up it's buttery smooth.

I have 13,000 miles on mine so far and I have not had any issues. I definitely experience a cold shift clunk on the 1-2 over the winter or on chilly mornings, but never a grind or anything truly faulty. I am an experienced driver, though, so I know not to freak out and cry to Ford because the Getrag in my 412 HP car is making a little noise.

As a Z community, we went through these complaints in '09 (remember the infamous Modshack one-liner, "is this your first car?" :icon17:), and for the Mustang community they are dealing with the same thing in 2011. The 5.0 has brought on a lot of newer, inexperienced drivers to the Mustang ranks. And it so happens that these nub owners are some of the whiniest I have ever observed on an internet forum.

Why do you think I have 24k+ posts here? :p:icon17:

Overall I'd say the Getrag MT-82 is a fine transmission. Would it have been my number one choice? No, I'd have loved to see a beefier T56 in there with a true direct input, but it does seem like the MT82s are holding up to repeated abuse... there are a few 600-700whp cars running the stock transmission without any issues yet.

I think all this is is the 2009 370 6MT saga all over again. You have a few transmissions replaced for bum synchros (it happens) and then a lot of complaints from inexperienced drivers for things that the experienced guys know are normal. The only difference is that the Mustang is getting a lot more exposure because the nubs are more vocal and there are just more Mustangs out there (the MT-82 is used in the V6 and V8 models, so you have to figure at least 25k manual transmission 2011 models have been sold).

Oh, and there are a lot of old-guard Mustang "buy 'murrcan" owners that are just bitching because the transmission is designed by a German company and built in their Communist Chinese factory. I guarantee you if this was a Tremec (Mexico) there'd be far fewer complaints, because most good 'Murrcans have learned to accept that some goods can indeed be built in Mexico and Canada... 'cause we're attached to 'em and can supervise 'em, ya know? :facepalm:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078232)

Ford still has tons of issues with their TR6060's in the GT500's. GM evolved the specs for their syncro's in 2 different revisions of the corvette TR6060 (finally going with carbon-lined synchro's). Ford blunders on. They have issues with fixing problems with that transmission IMO.

I thought the MT82 was G2G, though. Seems they might have a slight issue there, as well. It would make me nervous if I were buying a new GT/GT500.

Originally Posted by baldie (Post 1078235)

I followed that thread as well and thought it's just a few people overreacting. 10k miles on mine and no problems.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078241)

That's really what it is. Overreacting by a lot of drama queens and nubs. Kind of annoying. On one of the forums there was even a guy that complained about the transmission feel and referenced his silky smooth shifting (automatic) Lexus that he traded in on the car. :icon18:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078238)

I have heard of some GT500 transmission issues. I'm not really sure what is going on there.

I'd say that there's absolutely nothing to worry about with the MT-82 in the GTs as I explained previously. I might be a little cautious about the GT500, because like you said, I have heard of some real issues... probably synchro problems like you mentioned. Of course even then the vast majority of GT500 owners have no problems, so who know's what's really going on.

But to be honest I haven't really stayed abreast of the GT500 because it doesn't really appeal to me. I'd much rather scoop up a Boss or build a Brembo GT the way I want. I'm not a fan of the 5.4L. It certainly is a beefy, reliable motor that has served a number of cars well, but the new 5.0 is just better.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078253)

Vast majority or not, if you go to ANY GT500 forum you will find a "Hey, new here, my trans. grinds on 1-2 shifts at high rpm" post in the first 2 pages if not on the first.

You won't find that anywhere else. If it were just whining, the Viper and 'Vette forum would have the same issue. They don't. 'Vette owners are probably the pickest, too, as a whole.

EDIT:

Just tried it. This was on page 2: TR-6060 Grind Parts List - Team Shelby

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078253)

Vast majority or not, if you go to ANY GT500 forum you will find a "Hey, new here, my trans. grinds on 1-2 shifts at high rpm" post in the first 2 pages if not on the first.

You won't find that anywhere else. If it were just whining, the Viper and 'Vette forum would have the same issue. They don't. 'Vette owners are probably the pickest, too, as a whole.

EDIT:

Just tried it. This was on page 2: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/ind...nd-parts-list/

EDIT #2: Tried it again. Top of page 2 has this: 2010 2011 gt500 1-2 shift problem Poll - SVTPerformance

The only times you will find this on the 'vette forum are when people complain about it being notchy when cold (nature of a manual), or are talking about a pre' 2009 car before they revised the synchro's.

Originally Posted by Davey (Post 1078173)

3260-ish with the touring package, a little less without.

300+ pounds is "not far off"? Come on man, that's huge. Next you'll be saying that a couple of tenths in the quarter mile is just a couple of tenths. ;)

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078266)

No doubt 300lbs is a big deal. Just pointing out that it's not like the Z is weighing in a 3k with a 50/50. I also believe the mustang has some easy weight that can be shed though, while even guys in race-prepped Z's still mostly weigh in over 3150 lbs.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078265)

They used to be on every first page of our forums, and from my time on the Vette forums, there were a lot of those posts when the Z06 first came out.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078267)

Oh, I forgot the obligatory you won't find any complaints on the 'Vette forums because they all drive like the grandpas they are.

;) :p :bowrofl:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078276)

Find me a mustang fanboy who can drive as well as Jamie Furman.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078276)

We just take it easy because we have nothing to prove to a mustang owner :)

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078268)

I dropped 50lbs by swapping out my mufflers. :bowrofl:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078278)

Even with three emoticons the sarcasm went undetected.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078279)

Then why do they always try to race me? :icon18:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078281)

Sarcasm wasn't missed. :tiphat:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078281)

They aren't trying to race you. They are just driving normally. That's just what a normal merge with traffic in a fast car looks like. :P

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078272)

Like I said, pre '09. GM fixed the issue to where the 'vette's only grind comes from normal frequency of parts failure, which is to say, any car can have a problem, but it's not the norm.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078286)

Honestly, whenever a C5 or C6 comes up on me it seems like 80% of the time they want to start ****. I sort of understand the C6 but why the hell would a C5 with only a cat-back want to start something?

There was a C5 coupe that was harrassing our 370 group on our way to lunch one day. I had to put that dumbass in his place. :shakes head:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078293)

Yeah, but by the time the car has been out for years, there tend to be less idiots positing up about the driver related problem.


Here is what the discussion looks like when more knowledgeable people talk about the funky cold performance.

Do you remember all the guys trying to lemon law the car due to the trans in the early Z06?

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078288)

I caught it after the edit. :tup: :icon17:

I was really surprised about the weight of those mufflers. Wasn't expecting it to hurt so much when it came down and hit me. They weigh 44 lbs a piece. :eek:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078288)

I caught it after the edit. :tup: :icon17:

I was really surprised about the weight of those mufflers. Wasn't expecting it to hurt so much when it came down and hit me. They weigh 44 lbs a piece. :eek:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078296)

The GT500 has been out for how long now?

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078293)

Yeah, but by the time the car has been out for years, there tend to be less idiots positing up about the driver related problem.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078300)

I guarantee the new Boss will "have" like a million transmission issues due to this crowd.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078276)

We just take it easy around you because we have nothing to prove to a mustang owner :)

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078303)

It usually works like this (Especially for affordable cars like the Z and Mustang):

New model is introduced.

Media raves about said model.

Bunch of nubs buy the car.

Bunch of nubs complain about car.

Media reports on complaints.

Time passes and things die down. Nubs either learn or leave.

Car gets cheap in the used markets, punk kids enter the market and ruin everything.

Rinse and repeat.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078305)

:iagree: See my post above.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078319)

Normally, I might agree, but even the media says the GT500's driveline has an issue. The last Lightning Lap C&D article mentioned grind specifically. It did it very candidly, though, including it in the GT's section. Here you go:


Lightning Lap 2011: LL2 Class - Feature - Car and Driver

If their driver can't shift right, what hope do any of us have? They don't exactly let a pimple-faced teenager do the comparison test.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078330)

Car and Driver is notorious for not having the most skilled people behind the wheel at lightning lap.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078332)

So what you are telling me is that the GT500's transmission is so difficult to shift correctly that people who make a living thrashing sports cars cannot properly do it, albeit they can shift plenty of other car's transmissions just fine, including the GT's?

At the VERY LEAST, you are saying the base performance model is a better drive transmission-wise than the top-dog.

Fail.

Any way you slice it.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078335)

I think you're reading too much into their off hand remark about grinding.

It is generally true that higher power cars are harder to shift. The GT500 will have a tougher transmission to handle just by virtue of the broad power band.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078340)

Well the base V8 engine IS better than the top dawg. :D

One of the big Mustang mags did a pretty interesting comparo of the 5.0 and 5.4 recently that has a lot of the 5.4L guys kind of miffed.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 1078340)

Well the base V8 engine IS better than the top dawg. :D

One of the big Mustang mags did a pretty interesting comparo of the 5.0 and 5.4 recently that has a lot of the 5.4L guys kind of miffed.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1078343)

Funny. Nothing was said about the CTS-V's TR6060 being tough to shift. In fact, the only mention of shifting in that review was how nicely the pedals were laid out for heel/toe.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1078350)

Well, since we are taking C&D LL reports as gospel (which is laughable, since half those test drivers don't have a clue what they are doing)



We were also impressed by the car’s relatively neutral midcorner behavior and its brakes, which could stop a runaway locomotive. Say it with us now: If only the seats were more supportive and the shifter a little more cooperative

I think this is clear evidence that we all need to run screaming away from the uncooperative Z06 shifter.