2020 Supra... first thoughts

Cyber370 · 02-07-2019, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Let me ask you this... If the supra was a 400hp 3jz for 100k+ Would u still be complaining about price? Cuz engine development cost was the main reason behind doing this. At least it's an inline 6. That's it's heritage... The supra is not perfect. But it's a new 2 seat FR sports car that's not muscle. Who else is doing it under $60k?

I don’t think price should’ve had anything to do with it. In the past, the Supra has always been Toyota’s halo sports car and expensive. The new Supra should’ve been a GTR or Corvette killer as it was in the past. I think a minimum of 500hp under 100k should’ve been the target and easily achievable (lightened LC500?). What they made is an improved BRZ/ 86. Now if The new Supra was called «*Celica*» instead........hmmmm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NissanFreak81 · 02-07-2019, 08:21 AM

They are generally identical in size. The Supra is about 5 inches longers. Around 167 inches vs 172 inches.

sunkist350z · 02-09-2019, 12:18 PM

TRD parts for the new supra

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/tr...-line-concept/

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-09-2019, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber370

I don’t think price should’ve had anything to do with it. In the past, the Supra has always been Toyota’s halo sports car and expensive. The new Supra should’ve been a GTR or Corvette killer as it was in the past. I think a minimum of 500hp under 100k should’ve been the target and easily achievable (lightened LC500?). What they made is an improved BRZ/ 86. Now if The new Supra was called «*Celica*» instead........hmmmm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would have met the same dilemma as a 100k Z. The supra was 320hp when it came out. It's specs were in the same range as all the other jdm cars of the era.
Nissan 300zx turbo. 300 to 320 hp as well as the Mitsubishi 3000gt
The Mazda rx 7 turbo was 255hp but 500 to 800lbs lighter than the rest. The corvette z06 at the time was about 350hp and was considered the car to beat. The 300zx did it.
What made the supra amazing wasn't how fast it was out the box. But how easy it was to get 1000hp out of a 300hp engine... So I'm not sure why you think the Supra has to be a GTR killer out the box. It's priced right in line with a 370z Nismo, where it should be. What has to happen is the Z needs a competitive update. Put the Q60 engine in the Nismo.

sunkist350z · 02-09-2019, 07:05 PM

Cant wait to test drive the new Supra, if they make a manual next model year I may end up trading my z in. If not, I may keep my z and go FI or get my dream sports car a 987.2 Cayman s.

sunkist350z · 02-09-2019, 11:39 PM

TRD exhaust note, sounds meaty turn up the volume..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5CcHtCRPE

Falconquey · 02-10-2019, 09:34 PM

The Supra isn't a bad car at all. Decent power, looks and performance from what I have seen and read. And the price is reasonable. Not sure what all the hate is about. And who cares what it's called... Doesn't matter, the car can stand on its own. Just be glad it isn't a 4 banger or some hybrid POS.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-11-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunkist350z

TRD exhaust note, sounds meaty turn up the volume..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5CcHtCRPE

Nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconquey

The Supra isn't a bad car at all. Decent power, looks and performance from what I have seen and read. And the price is reasonable. Not sure what all the hate is about. And who cares what it's called... Doesn't matter, the car can stand on its own. Just be glad it isn't a 4 banger or some hybrid POS.

Or a effin crossover a la Mitsubishi eclipse.

RicerX · 02-12-2019, 10:26 AM

My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?

GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.

This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.

The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.

People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.

I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.

If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."

I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.

Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.

Spooler · 02-12-2019, 10:56 AM

^^^^^^^ Yeap, the Supra is a joke.

ZCanadian · 02-12-2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?

GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.

This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.

The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.

People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.

I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.

If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."

I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.

Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.

Well spoken.

Although there are blurred lines in the automotive world that make this distinction harder and harder. The Ford GT you mention isn't actually BUILT by Ford, although it's their design and drive train. The Alfa 4C is constructed on a Maserati line, with it's party-trick carbon tub built by a supplier entirely outside of the FCA empire. The Porsche Taycan will essentially be the Audi e-Tron.

But to take a BMW rolling stock plus interior and house it under unique sheet metal does not a true "halo" car make. It's just a way of cheaply generating a new volume seller whilst prostituting a storied badge. the only enthusiasts it was meant to please are stockholders. I hope it lives up to the hype for those who buy the car and not the company.

The question, as someone here so wisely commented earlier in this thread, is whether you are buying BMW performance with Toyota reliability and operating costs, or the other way around. That will be the telling part of the new Supra story, and one we won't know for some time.

I do wish them luck with it. We need more antidotes to self-driving people-movers for the lobotomized. This is a bold venture that was going to be doomed to criticism from the start. Show 'em they're wrong, Toyota!

Cyber370 · 02-12-2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?

GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.

This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.

The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.

People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.

I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.

If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."

I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.

Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.

Exactly! Very well said......

Spooler · 02-12-2019, 12:12 PM

The Supra/BMW would be just like if Nissan made a new GTR/Audi. No thanks. The powertrain has always been what made the Japanese cars great. Long life and low maintenance.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-12-2019, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?

GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.

This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.

The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.

People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.

I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.

If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."

I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.

Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.

I try to look at it like this... Let's say this Supra sets the world on fire? And sales go back to 80's or early 90's levels. 30,000 units annually. Toyota would have made enough money that the 2nd gen, we may have a 3jz?

The thing about all those other cars you mentioned is they come from car companies that build semi exotics. And Chevy still enjoys sales numbers of over 10,000 units.

The fault isn't in Toyota. It's in all the pansies buying snoozemobiles. Glorifying electrified cars and crossovers and enthusiasts who DONT make the SACRIFICE of buying new. Example. How many people here bought a new Z? Then people wonder why Nissan has the same car out for a decade. The GTR, unlike the Z enjoyed a consistent run in Japan without ever being canceled. The car is a living legend. Now that Nissan brought it here after 40 yrs of waiting. I realize the american market doesn't deserve it. Cuz all these sports cars are getting ruined trying to meet the elitist luxury minded upper middle class. We can't even have a raw sports car. Everyone complains and wants a smooth DCT... Why? So car companies give them what they can make smooth. A slushbox. But then the public complains it's a slushbox. Everyone screams for a manual but all chase the one manual car motor trend and road and track praise. So why should the car companies keep putting manuals in their car models if no one is buying them?

The more I read people's stupid demands on forums and bytchy complaints... Can we expect any less than car companies making a low financial impact sports car that sells 5000 units a year.

And if they made a GTR competitor. What they gonna sell. 750 units out the gate after a 20 yr hiatus like the unsuccessful and nobody bought NSX. The NSX was a 180000 sports car now being sold at 130000 cuz no one will buy it. And no one is still buying it with the 50k cut. I have little faith Iin any 100k subpremium car right now. We have to support the new car enthusiast market and a lot aren't doing that. I do! But many don't.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-12-2019, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

The Supra/BMW would be just like if Nissan made a new GTR/Audi. No thanks. The powertrain has always been what made the Japanese cars great. Long life and low maintenance.

I posted an article where BMW had to send every engine part to toyota to pass their reliability inspections. And no engine part went into the Supra without Toyota's approval.

02-09-2019, 07:05 PM	#185 (permalink)
sunkist350z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Z-land Posts: 1,009 Drives: 2012 370z sport 6-sp Rep Power: 55342	Cant wait to test drive the new Supra, if they make a manual next model year I may end up trading my z in. If not, I may keep my z and go FI or get my dream sports car a 987.2 Cayman s. UNKNOWN_370 and Zingston like this.

02-09-2019, 11:39 PM	#186 (permalink)
sunkist350z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Z-land Posts: 1,009 Drives: 2012 370z sport 6-sp Rep Power: 55342	TRD exhaust note, sounds meaty turn up the volume.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5CcHtCRPE UNKNOWN_370 likes this.

02-10-2019, 09:34 PM	#187 (permalink)
Falconquey Track Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: PacNW Posts: 563 Drives: Bitchin' 15 Z Rep Power: 2246925	The Supra isn't a bad car at all. Decent power, looks and performance from what I have seen and read. And the price is reasonable. Not sure what all the hate is about. And who cares what it's called... Doesn't matter, the car can stand on its own. Just be glad it isn't a 4 banger or some hybrid POS. sunkist350z, UNKNOWN_370, DLSTR and 2 others like this.

02-12-2019, 10:26 AM	#189 (permalink)
RicerX Track Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: TN Posts: 597 Drives: To the Pizza joint. Rep Power: 7721	My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker? GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI. This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that. The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ***, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across. People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer. I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable. If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire." I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW. Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit. DarkJak, FPenvy, Rusty and 3 others like this. Last edited by RicerX; 02-12-2019 at 10:28 AM.*

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02-07-2019, 08:21 AM	#182 (permalink)
NissanFreak81 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Houston Posts: 69 Drives: G37 Rep Power: 28	They are generally identical in size. The Supra is about 5 inches longers. Around 167 inches vs 172 inches.

02-09-2019, 12:18 PM	#183 (permalink)
sunkist350z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Z-land Posts: 1,009 Drives: 2012 370z sport 6-sp Rep Power: 55342	TRD parts for the new supra https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/tr...-line-concept/

02-12-2019, 10:56 AM	#190 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,066 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	^^^^^^^ Yeap, the Supra is a joke.

02-12-2019, 12:12 PM	#193 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,066 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	The Supra/BMW would be just like if Nissan made a new GTR/Audi. No thanks. The powertrain has always been what made the Japanese cars great. Long life and low maintenance.