Z35 motor theory

brucelidat · 09-30-2014, 04:09 PM

If it's really going hybrid, I don't see any way the price won't go up as well.

Volk Z · 09-30-2014, 06:10 PM

The scion frs to use as a guide is said to go after the new Z with a 300ish hp 4 cylinder turbo for 35k.

My guess is if the Z is going to have 408hp and saod to reduce weight lets assume a 3000 pound curb weight vs the Frs 2790 pounds weight. The price for the flagship model will be over 35k. If they have the 4 cylinder turbo version that may be low 30s to beat the frs in pricing

My guess is as follows

Base with 4 cylinder option 32k 315hp to compete with mustang 4 cyl turbo and frs turbo

Sport model with v6 turbo option priced at 38k
With 408hp
Nismo model with v6 turbo priced at 47k

These are guesses but its fun to speculate

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-01-2014, 03:30 AM

Give me a high revving 3.0 TT v6, Z @ 420hp & 440lb of tq. 3,100lbs loaded with all options. A 50" ride height and 71.5"/72" width, updated Akebono's and small thick leather wrapped hydraulic steering wheel with 20/30mpg's, modernized 240z inspired design and I'm set!!!!

njobe89 · 10-01-2014, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Give me a high revving 3.0 TT v6, Z @ 420hp & 440lb of tq. 3,100lbs loaded with all options. A 50" ride height and 71.5"/72" width, updated Akebono's and small thick leather wrapped hydraulic steering wheel with 20/30mpg's, modernized 240z inspired design and I'm set!!!!

and i keep hoping to win the lottery

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-01-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njobe89

and i keep hoping to win the lottery

Remember this post. We'll talk about it next year.

njobe89 · 10-02-2014, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Remember this post. We'll talk about it next year.

ok, hopefully i'll win the lottery haha

Volk Z · 10-01-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Give me a high revving 3.0 TT v6, Z @ 420hp & 440lb of tq. 3,100lbs loaded with all options. A 50" ride height and 71.5"/72" width, updated Akebono's and small thick leather wrapped hydraulic steering wheel with 20/30mpg's, modernized 240z inspired design and I'm set!!!!

This is my wish list too. The modernized 240z may be what they do. I found 2 renderings appears to be drawn by Nissan design not a 14 year old fan boy...

I can only find one now but I really like the muscular side profile. I hope nissan bring in more angular lines and lose the bubble. One thing I like about the 2015 Nismo is all the angles they brought in on the front and side skirts.

Check out the comparison when Jay Leno went to Nissan design. The side profile of the new z on the poster Jay is next to looks very similar to the one i posted below.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-01-2014, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volk Z

This is my wish list too. The modernized 240z may be what they do. I found 2 renderings appears to be drawn by Nissan design not a 14 year old fan boy...

I can only find one now but I really like the muscular side profile. I hope nissan bring in more angular lines and lose the bubble. One thing I like about the 2015 Nismo is all the angles they brought in on the front and side skirts.

Check out the comparison when Jay Leno went to Nissan design. The side profile of the new z on the poster Jay is next to looks very similar to the one i posted below.

. Yeah I seen these.. And if those represent the future. I expect the Z to win hearts all over again.

watson853 · 10-01-2014, 10:11 AM

If Nissan does do two engines in the next Z anyone think we will be getting Nismo versions of both.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Volk Z · 10-01-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson853

If Nissan does do two engines in the next Z anyone think we will be getting Nismo versions of both.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No it would most likely be only the flagship model

mishuko · 10-01-2014, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson853

If Nissan does do two engines in the next Z anyone think we will be getting Nismo versions of both.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volk Z

No it would most likely be only the flagship model

agreed...
I see it similiar to like the c-series from MB. c250, c300, c400, c63 type thing... dunno though

Magic Bus · 10-01-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson853

If Nissan does do two engines in the next Z anyone think we will be getting Nismo versions of both.

While the thought of 2 different engines for the Z sounds interesting, I highly doubt this would ever occur. Reasons being, 2 seat sport cars is a niche, not a high volume product. And add to the fact that Nissan is currently selling less than 700 Z's a month, this would be too risky and just not make any business sense. However if Nissan was selling over 10,000 a month there's a possibility of this.

I like Unknown's idea of what a Z shoud be. TT, 420 hp, lighter with great feedback to the driver. The best selling 2 door sportscar out there is the Corvette and if Nissan wants to be competitive in this market, they have to come out with a car that's very close to the C7 in performance. Then tuners can do just a little bit of magic to the TT to make it outrun a standard C7. This should establish street cred for the Z which Nissan is seeking.

Yes the price will go up for this new Z. However, I believe if Nissan can build this car with the base model starting at $37k and the Nismo topping out at $49k, they'll get their fare share of sales in this niche market. I know I'd buy one and scratch all the others off my list for a future car.

Volk Z · 10-02-2014, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Bus

While the thought of 2 different engines for the Z sounds interesting, I highly doubt this would ever occur. Reasons being, 2 seat sport cars is a niche, not a high volume product. And add to the fact that Nissan is currently selling less than 700 Z's a month, this would be too risky and just not make any business sense. However if Nissan was selling over 10,000 a month there's a possibility of this.

I like Unknown's idea of what a Z shoud be. TT, 420 hp, lighter with great feedback to the driver. The best selling 2 door sportscar out there is the Corvette and if Nissan wants to be competitive in this market, they have to come out with a car that's very close to the C7 in performance. Then tuners can do just a little bit of magic to the TT to make it outrun a standard C7. This should establish street cred for the Z which Nissan is seeking.

Yes the price will go up for this new Z. However, I believe if Nissan can build this car with the base model starting at $37k and the Nismo topping out at $49k, they'll get their fare share of sales in this niche market. I know I'd buy one and scratch all the others off my list for a future car.

I agree I think if they put a little more of a package together and the prices went up they would sell a lot more.

I could see sales going up even if base price was 38k. If the car offered a v6tt lightweight and looked great.
Look at all the guys who drop 10k out of pocket to TT there 370z or 350z. I would rather keep the money in my savings and finance a car that already has this on it.

If they did do two engines. Then have a 330hp NA v6 and a 420hp v6tt like the 90s with the supras and 300zx offering both.

For people who can't afford the 40k us turbo z they could get the base v6 for 32k. Seems simple to me.

Nissan need to stop dipping their toes in the water with the Z and just dive in... look at the new Toyota Supra aka ft1 to be released. Most likely will be a 6 cylinder turbo with a carbon chassis supplied by bmw with looks to kill.

If the toyota supra aka ft1 is priced in the 50k mark and nissan expects to sell Nismo models close to 50k with a not so great engine choice then they will lose for sure.

ZBro16 · 10-02-2014, 09:16 AM

Fun thread.

Firstly - regarding the post about Nissan progression and not Nissan fanboy appeasement: in the case of the Z is exceptionally important that Nissan at least somewhat caters to the fanboys. If it were an Altima we were talking about, then I would agree with progression. The vast majority of people buying Z cars are the Nissan fanboys. The general sports car buyer isn't buying Zs, he's looking at American V8s. The Mustang generally accounts for half the sports car sales in America. Why is this? Bang for the buck - the buyer gets a car that has a lot of power, sporty looks, and some day-to-day utility.

If the Z is to remain a two seater enthusiast's vehicle, Nissan needs to tread carefully for a number of reasons.

1) Pricing for package:

If Nissan decides to make a $50k Z, it'd better have 500 horsepower because of its level of competition. In that range, you're in Corvette territory. (the GT-R is a separate argument that I'll get to later) You're creeping on M3, RCF, CTS-V, Camaro ZL1/Z28, Mustang GT500 pricing. HEAVY HITTERS. Nissan can go one of two directions - they can make a 500 horsepower Z and go play with the next level of competition, or they can exercise the more likely option - bang for the buck. The Z has always been the bang for the buck corvette and the GT-R has always been the bang for the buck porsche. The difference now is the level of competition is the toughest it has ever been for either car.

2) Which segment do we play in?

To piggy back off of point one, no matter what Nissan does, the pricing is going to determine the segment it gets thrown into in the eyes of the general public and the media. Only the enthusiasts clamor "yeah my sports car costs $30k but it can whip your $80k porsche". However, the $30k-$40k range is becoming thinner. While it's highly unlikely the Z will go play in Miata/BRZ land, they very well could. However, the Z has never been about that since its inception. The sweet spot for this car will be the $30k-$40k range, as $30k is the cap for the Miata/BRZs of the world, while $40k is when you start getting into the more nicely equipped Mustang GTs of the world. In that range, Nissan can justify the extra price in the Z over a Miata because of the performance difference and justify the benefit in a Z over a Mustang GT because of the price difference as long as they do one thing - get point #1 right. The Z could possibly live in a segment all on its own (as it almost does currently). The only two seater in the US market below a Z is a Miata, and the next one up from it is a Vette. (I know things like the Alfa 4C and others are coming, which is why its essential that Nissan gets the pricing/segment stuff right.)

Now - these two things lead me to this: likely engine configuration.

If they get something really expensive for the platform, it will drive the cost of the car up, and the Z will die a la 300ZX TT. If they repeat the 3.7 in its current form, no one will be interested if the car shows up weighing 3300lbs.

What is likely for Nissan is they will either dump a ton of money into a new platform and reuse something from someone that's cheap or they will use an engine from somewhere else that gives them some versatility and will only modify the current platform. If they find a way to make a 2500lb Z with the current VQ in it, I feel that's a possible recipe for success.

I will bring the Q50 Eau Rouge into the equation - I felt that using the exact engine from the GT-R (hand built and all) was great for a proof of concept, but would result in an abysmal failure in production as it would result in a $100k+ car. However, the solution could be that they would begin mass producing a version of the VR38DETT that would result in less expensive production costs, or they could simply rework a bit of the VQ37VHR, twin turbo it, and have a more feasible answer. This way, you have a mass produced engine with cheaper production costs to make the Q50 Eau Rouge a true contender. However, the same argument could be made for the VR38DETT (the people's version). If you find a way to mass produce that motor, you could have a solution. An NA version for the Z, Q50, upcoming Q60 coupe and the other infinitis that use the 3.7, and a turbo version for the Eau Rouge.

On the other hand, the VQ37VHR with a revision that includes perhaps Direct Injection and maybe a KERS system could do the trick with a bit of weight reduction.

Benz motors won't do it. From a cost standpoint, I don't see the benefit if you have the ship the motors all over the world to build a car. If the Z has a German heart, it will alienate most of its fanbase. This will destroy the Z unless they build something that could cannibalize Mustang sales to make up for the loss of the Z fanboys (HIGHLY unlikely). A four-cyl motor won't do it either unless it's a game changer from Nissan (350hp/300tq or something like it). Even Mazda knows that, while you can make a lighter platform, the American market won't respond well to a decrease in horsepower. You're better off keeping the numbers the same or better, because the meathead drivers of the American car market look straight at the horsepower figure. The educated enthusiasts and drivers will look at power combined with suspension layout, power-to-weight ratio, and drivetrain efficiency to ascertain the capabilities of a car, but sadly those people make up a very small number of sales. Even if they took 1000lbs off the car's weight, a power figure below 300hp in this car will destroy its image around its competition, and the Z35 could be the last Z car we ever see.

Eclipz · 10-02-2014, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

( Click to show/hide )

Fun thread.

Firstly - regarding the post about Nissan progression and not Nissan fanboy appeasement: in the case of the Z is exceptionally important that Nissan at least somewhat caters to the fanboys. If it were an Altima we were talking about, then I would agree with progression. The vast majority of people buying Z cars are the Nissan fanboys. The general sports car buyer isn't buying Zs, he's looking at American V8s. The Mustang generally accounts for half the sports car sales in America. Why is this? Bang for the buck - the buyer gets a car that has a lot of power, sporty looks, and some day-to-day utility.

If the Z is to remain a two seater enthusiast's vehicle, Nissan needs to tread carefully for a number of reasons.

1) Pricing for package:

If Nissan decides to make a $50k Z, it'd better have 500 horsepower because of its level of competition. In that range, you're in Corvette territory. (the GT-R is a separate argument that I'll get to later) You're creeping on M3, RCF, CTS-V, Camaro ZL1/Z28, Mustang GT500 pricing. HEAVY HITTERS. Nissan can go one of two directions - they can make a 500 horsepower Z and go play with the next level of competition, or they can exercise the more likely option - bang for the buck. The Z has always been the bang for the buck corvette and the GT-R has always been the bang for the buck porsche. The difference now is the level of competition is the toughest it has ever been for either car.

2) Which segment do we play in?

To piggy back off of point one, no matter what Nissan does, the pricing is going to determine the segment it gets thrown into in the eyes of the general public and the media. Only the enthusiasts clamor "yeah my sports car costs $30k but it can whip your $80k porsche". However, the $30k-$40k range is becoming thinner. While it's highly unlikely the Z will go play in Miata/BRZ land, they very well could. However, the Z has never been about that since its inception. The sweet spot for this car will be the $30k-$40k range, as $30k is the cap for the Miata/BRZs of the world, while $40k is when you start getting into the more nicely equipped Mustang GTs of the world. In that range, Nissan can justify the extra price in the Z over a Miata because of the performance difference and justify the benefit in a Z over a Mustang GT because of the price difference as long as they do one thing - get point #1 right. The Z could possibly live in a segment all on its own (as it almost does currently). The only two seater in the US market below a Z is a Miata, and the next one up from it is a Vette. (I know things like the Alfa 4C and others are coming, which is why its essential that Nissan gets the pricing/segment stuff right.)

Now - these two things lead me to this: likely engine configuration.

If they get something really expensive for the platform, it will drive the cost of the car up, and the Z will die a la 300ZX TT. If they repeat the 3.7 in its current form, no one will be interested if the car shows up weighing 3300lbs.

What is likely for Nissan is they will either dump a ton of money into a new platform and reuse something from someone that's cheap or they will use an engine from somewhere else that gives them some versatility and will only modify the current platform. If they find a way to make a 2500lb Z with the current VQ in it, I feel that's a possible recipe for success.

I will bring the Q50 Eau Rouge into the equation - I felt that using the exact engine from the GT-R (hand built and all) was great for a proof of concept, but would result in an abysmal failure in production as it would result in a $100k+ car. However, the solution could be that they would begin mass producing a version of the VR38DETT that would result in less expensive production costs, or they could simply rework a bit of the VQ37VHR, twin turbo it, and have a more feasible answer. This way, you have a mass produced engine with cheaper production costs to make the Q50 Eau Rouge a true contender. However, the same argument could be made for the VR38DETT (the people's version). If you find a way to mass produce that motor, you could have a solution. An NA version for the Z, Q50, upcoming Q60 coupe and the other infinitis that use the 3.7, and a turbo version for the Eau Rouge.

On the other hand, the VQ37VHR with a revision that includes perhaps Direct Injection and maybe a KERS system could do the trick with a bit of weight reduction.

Benz motors won't do it. From a cost standpoint, I don't see the benefit if you have the ship the motors all over the world to build a car. If the Z has a German heart, it will alienate most of its fanbase. This will destroy the Z unless they build something that could cannibalize Mustang sales to make up for the loss of the Z fanboys (HIGHLY unlikely). A four-cyl motor won't do it either unless it's a game changer from Nissan (350hp/300tq or something like it). Even Mazda knows that, while you can make a lighter platform, the American market won't respond well to a decrease in horsepower. You're better off keeping the numbers the same or better, because the meathead drivers of the American car market look straight at the horsepower figure. The educated enthusiasts and drivers will look at power combined with suspension layout, power-to-weight ratio, and drivetrain efficiency to ascertain the capabilities of a car, but sadly those people make up a very small number of sales. Even if they took 1000lbs off the car's weight, a power figure below 300hp in this car will destroy its image around its competition, and the Z35 could be the last Z car we ever see.

BRAVO, bravissimo! this should be sent to Nissan executives immediately.

09-30-2014, 04:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 32	If it's really going hybrid, I don't see any way the price won't go up as well. Magic Bus likes this. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

09-30-2014, 06:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Volk Z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Laguna Beach, CA Posts: 2,214 Drives: Nismo Z Rep Power: 3067	The scion frs to use as a guide is said to go after the new Z with a 300ish hp 4 cylinder turbo for 35k. My guess is if the Z is going to have 408hp and saod to reduce weight lets assume a 3000 pound curb weight vs the Frs 2790 pounds weight. The price for the flagship model will be over 35k. If they have the 4 cylinder turbo version that may be low 30s to beat the frs in pricing My guess is as follows Base with 4 cylinder option 32k 315hp to compete with mustang 4 cyl turbo and frs turbo Sport model with v6 turbo option priced at 38k With 408hp Nismo model with v6 turbo priced at 47k These are guesses but its fun to speculate Magic Bus likes this. __________________ AMUSE * TOMEI * STILLEN * CRAFTSQUARE RECARO * 3M * TOP SECRET * SLICKCARBON Last edited by Volk Z; 09-30-2014 at 06:14 PM.

10-01-2014, 03:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	Give me a high revving 3.0 TT v6, Z @ 420hp & 440lb of tq. 3,100lbs loaded with all options. A 50" ride height and 71.5"/72" width, updated Akebono's and small thick leather wrapped hydraulic steering wheel with 20/30mpg's, modernized 240z inspired design and I'm set!!!! watson853 likes this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

10-02-2014, 09:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
ZBro16 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 370 Drives: A Z. Rep Power: 14	Fun thread. Firstly - regarding the post about Nissan progression and not Nissan fanboy appeasement: in the case of the Z is exceptionally important that Nissan at least somewhat caters to the fanboys. If it were an Altima we were talking about, then I would agree with progression. The vast majority of people buying Z cars are the Nissan fanboys. The general sports car buyer isn't buying Zs, he's looking at American V8s. The Mustang generally accounts for half the sports car sales in America. Why is this? Bang for the buck - the buyer gets a car that has a lot of power, sporty looks, and some day-to-day utility. If the Z is to remain a two seater enthusiast's vehicle, Nissan needs to tread carefully for a number of reasons. 1) Pricing for package: If Nissan decides to make a $50k Z, it'd better have 500 horsepower because of its level of competition. In that range, you're in Corvette territory. (the GT-R is a separate argument that I'll get to later) You're creeping on M3, RCF, CTS-V, Camaro ZL1/Z28, Mustang GT500 pricing. HEAVY HITTERS. Nissan can go one of two directions - they can make a 500 horsepower Z and go play with the next level of competition, or they can exercise the more likely option - bang for the buck. The Z has always been the bang for the buck corvette and the GT-R has always been the bang for the buck porsche. The difference now is the level of competition is the toughest it has ever been for either car. 2) Which segment do we play in? To piggy back off of point one, no matter what Nissan does, the pricing is going to determine the segment it gets thrown into in the eyes of the general public and the media. Only the enthusiasts clamor "yeah my sports car costs $30k but it can whip your $80k porsche". However, the $30k-$40k range is becoming thinner. While it's highly unlikely the Z will go play in Miata/BRZ land, they very well could. However, the Z has never been about that since its inception. The sweet spot for this car will be the $30k-$40k range, as $30k is the cap for the Miata/BRZs of the world, while $40k is when you start getting into the more nicely equipped Mustang GTs of the world. In that range, Nissan can justify the extra price in the Z over a Miata because of the performance difference and justify the benefit in a Z over a Mustang GT because of the price difference as long as they do one thing - get point #1 right. The Z could possibly live in a segment all on its own (as it almost does currently). The only two seater in the US market below a Z is a Miata, and the next one up from it is a Vette. (I know things like the Alfa 4C and others are coming, which is why its essential that Nissan gets the pricing/segment stuff right.) Now - these two things lead me to this: likely engine configuration. If they get something really expensive for the platform, it will drive the cost of the car up, and the Z will die a la 300ZX TT. If they repeat the 3.7 in its current form, no one will be interested if the car shows up weighing 3300lbs. What is likely for Nissan is they will either dump a ton of money into a new platform and reuse something from someone that's cheap or they will use an engine from somewhere else that gives them some versatility and will only modify the current platform. If they find a way to make a 2500lb Z with the current VQ in it, I feel that's a possible recipe for success. I will bring the Q50 Eau Rouge into the equation - I felt that using the exact engine from the GT-R (hand built and all) was great for a proof of concept, but would result in an abysmal failure in production as it would result in a $100k+ car. However, the solution could be that they would begin mass producing a version of the VR38DETT that would result in less expensive production costs, or they could simply rework a bit of the VQ37VHR, twin turbo it, and have a more feasible answer. This way, you have a mass produced engine with cheaper production costs to make the Q50 Eau Rouge a true contender. However, the same argument could be made for the VR38DETT (the people's version). If you find a way to mass produce that motor, you could have a solution. An NA version for the Z, Q50, upcoming Q60 coupe and the other infinitis that use the 3.7, and a turbo version for the Eau Rouge. On the other hand, the VQ37VHR with a revision that includes perhaps Direct Injection and maybe a KERS system could do the trick with a bit of weight reduction. Benz motors won't do it. From a cost standpoint, I don't see the benefit if you have the ship the motors all over the world to build a car. If the Z has a German heart, it will alienate most of its fanbase. This will destroy the Z unless they build something that could cannibalize Mustang sales to make up for the loss of the Z fanboys (HIGHLY unlikely). A four-cyl motor won't do it either unless it's a game changer from Nissan (350hp/300tq or something like it). Even Mazda knows that, while you can make a lighter platform, the American market won't respond well to a decrease in horsepower. You're better off keeping the numbers the same or better, because the meathead drivers of the American car market look straight at the horsepower figure. The educated enthusiasts and drivers will look at power combined with suspension layout, power-to-weight ratio, and drivetrain efficiency to ascertain the capabilities of a car, but sadly those people make up a very small number of sales. Even if they took 1000lbs off the car's weight, a power figure below 300hp in this car will destroy its image around its competition, and the Z35 could be the last Z car we ever see. Valentino, zeeder, Rusty and 6 others like this.

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10-01-2014, 10:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
watson853 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Texas Age: 38 Posts: 202 Drives: 2014 Blue T/S 7AT Rep Power: 12	If Nissan does do two engines in the next Z anyone think we will be getting Nismo versions of both. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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