I am real curious as to why....

need4speed

Bud the group that's hitting u now has there own agenda. The more u try to make them understand where u comin from the more they gonna treat u like ur the idiot.
This forum is a cool place if ur just trying to learn from other peoples mistakes on the 1st year model or if u need tips on performing a mod from one of the "real seasoned tuners".
These guys are bringing this hybrid mustang/bimmer mentality into the import tuner culture.
I c ur point n only 5% will. Lol
Its this one sided mentality on this forum that is the tip of the iceberg of american close mindedness. This is why the world hates us. Arrogance and the constant need to belittle the next man to feel better about oneself. Instead of seeing ur point. Ur naive. Oh u expect too much. Like how dumb is that. If u look at the full spectrum of wat this man is saying. He's right. Jeeeez! N he's not stating opinions he stating facts. With an opinion as a sub context. Not vice versa like the rest of u guys.

armensti

paying 2 k for an exhaust for me is to much why? because its just 6-7 feet of pipes welded together. im sure it doesnt cost more then 10% of the price to manufacture the part.

Ryan@Forged

There's so much misinformation in this post I woudn't even know where to start. If you think the Z is an exclusive sports car in which manufactures are taking advantage of the owners... you need to take another look.

Absolutely. I have seen it done over and over.

I don't see how you come to your conclusions. What agenda do you think everyone in this thread has? Do you think the majority of the members on this forum prefer to pay more money and are trying to justify themselves? Nobody is trying to make the OP feel like an idiot. The point that was trying to be made is that prices are not overpriced like the OP is claiming.

Where I see your viewpoint on this matter I can assure you it costs significantly more than you think to manufacture such a part. The margins are nowhere near that range. Take in to consideration R&D, material costs, pruduction costs, and shipping.

ZKindaGuy

A bit self-serving in your answers don't ya think being that you are a sponsor / vendor? Of course you would defend the high prices of things.

m4a1mustang

On the flip side you are the self-serving consumer who doesn't think the manufacturers/vendors have a right to turn a profit. If you don't think prices are fair, don't buy the products. It's pretty simple.

I'm a believer in free markets and competition. Free markets + competition = competitive prices. Do you think Ryan would be in business if he ripped people off?

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Ryan@Forged

Haha, ya, exactly my point

Not really actually. The higher prices from the manufactures means we as vendors have to pay higher prices which is then directly reflected upon you, the customer. If we pay lower prices from the manufacturing company we pass on most of those savings to you as well. So cheaper prices for us mean cheaper prices for you. Think of it this way, vendors are customer as well. We have to buy parts just like you do. Higher prices means lower quantity of customers, which means less money for us as vendors. Yes we are in the reselling business, but it benefits us more to be able to buy parts cheaper. Make sense?

Another point to consider is that most manufactures have MAP pricing which vendors have to comply with. This means we as the vendors are not allowed to sell certain products for below the requested amount set by the manufacturing company.

Also, would you prefer I don't comment in this thread? I would assume the majority would want to know the viewpoint of a vendor on this forum instead of not know what our thoughts were on this matter. I try to be as up front and approachable as possible I already pointed out that I'm a vendor and my point of view may be seen differently, and rightfully so. However whether you are aware of it or not, we are in the same boat here to a certain degree.

This is how I see it as well. I believe our/other vendors prices are priced fairly to directly reflect the products we are selling. Yes, we are here to make a profit. However, we try to pass on the best price we can to the customers. I'm glad there are people out there who understand this.

Hi-TecDesigns

I'm not either of the above, so how do you explain my answer?


Just because something doesn't fit your point of view does not make it invalid... just because he's a sponsor/vendor does not mean his defense of the position is wrong.

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Hi-TecDesigns

And an iPod is nothing more than some plastic and some melted sand, but many don't blink at paying $400 for one.

Remove R&D time/money from the picture and you're left with materials and know-how. Most anyone can get the materials for a car project, but the know-how to put it together isn't rattling around in everyone's head, nor is the experience in doing so. You have to weigh the cost of an item/service against what's valuable to you. With a Helm's manual, I could take apart an engine and replace a ring... but it's worth significantly more to me to pay someone $2k to do it than spend the next 2 weeks solid in the driveway taking the time to do it myself. I can figure out how, and the materials/tools are easy enough to get, but my lack of experience in taking apart more than one or two engines in my lifetime means I'm going to be sloooow at it.

Sure, an exhaust is just a few bent/welded pipes, but it took time/money for someone to measure everything, test it, go through several prototypes, etc. They have to be a good welder if you want it to last (particularly stainless/titanium)... this comes from experience and not overnight. They have to have the right tools to bend it and weld it... this is usually money spent over many years to put together a full workshop.

Companies manufacture items to make a profit, not just enough so they can pay their employees an hourly wage. Figure two people working full-time on an exhaust, and let's say it takes two weeks for them to get something they're happy with (probably quite short, in reality). That's 160 hours worth of work and even at a paltry $10/hr that's $1,600 in the hole right there. Add in cost of only two prototypes worth of material... say $400. You're ready to start producing, but you're $2k down. Let's say hand production costs 6 hours (@ $10/hr) and $200 in materials... that catback exhaust you just bought for $320 shipped cost $260 to produce and $30 to ship. The owner sits back and enjoys his high-end profit of $30/exhaust. Woo hoo! He can now afford to purchase a couple six-packs of Corona and sit in his hammock for another hour.

But what about automation, you say? Fine, they automate it and cut the production time per exhaust down to 1 hour. Who paid for the multi-million $ robot welder that put it together? As the company owner, now you're hoping you can sell in quantity to make those small per-exhaust profits add up to pay for the capital equipment you're now leasing to lower the production times and raise your profit margin. And so on, ad infinitum...

I've been a business owner for over 7 years now and everything above is the [/u]simplified[/u] version. A while back I purchased a $30k laser engraving/cutting system with the knowledge it was not going to pay itself back immediately. Clients who knew I had it now expected me to work for less profit because they assumed I would make it up in quantity. Its a viscous cycle. One guy asked me to give him one of my LED lighting designs because "It's only a bunch of LEDs and those are dirt cheap." I replied with "Fine... if it's just a bunch of dirt cheap LEDs with nothing spent on R&D, then go design it yourself! don't forget to le me know how that turned out for you..."

But don't think that all items are cheap to manufacture simply because the components are inexpensive. Yes, charging $10k for a Lamborghini's exhaust may seem hugely expensive, but how much time/energy/money went into its development for a market that may sell 100 total? Sure, the profit margin is still higher for that exhaust than for a Neon's exhaust, but the risk was greater, too... what if only 50 people decided to buy instead of the projected 100? You're out some serious cash, particularly if you haven't paid off the R&D or capitol equipment yet.

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Ryan@Forged

Perfect example. I don't think it could be explained any better Keep in mind that the numbers he mentioned are only a loose figure. In most cases I have seen overhead to make most products on the market you see costs significantly more. Companies go through multiple prototypes each of which are tested before the final design is released. Don't you wonder how a company like Trust/Greddy had to file for bankruptcy not that long ago? This is a company I had/have always looked at as being one of the more successful companies in the aftermarket parts industry. If they were making 90% profit margins do you really think they would be struggling to keep their doors open? Where do you think all of that debt came from? There is a great deal more time and money that goes into the parts that are available.