Car and Driver's Cars Worth Waiting For: 2016 Z

ElVee · 05-29-2013, 02:33 PM

Would a discussion of the possible death of the Mitsu EVO be appropriate? Sort of a mini-godzilla AWD? That could allow the Z to shift downward.

At least Nissan has all these exciting possibilities.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 03:00 PM

A base Z that sold in the $32-$35k range with 300hp, and an upscale Z in the $40-$45k range with 370-400hp is really the way to go.

The base would be for people who want to step up from the Toyobaru 200hp and lack of amenities. The upscale will be for people who want something different from an American V8. Anything higher than that is terrible, the new Corvette starting price is $52k.

Can Nissan meet those price points and retain quality?

Fishey · 05-29-2013, 03:13 PM

The Recipe for success isn't very hard.

The car has to sell in the low 30k range fully loaded just below 40k.

It needs to be north of 400bhp and weight needs to be less then 3,000lbs.

Anything less and it will not be a front runner and share the same sales fate as the current 370z.

The current mustang GT is 420hp and 3500lbs with a retail cost of 31k invoice as low as 28k so Nissan has to beat those specs and cost or get out of the game because they are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

SS_Firehawk · 05-29-2013, 04:26 PM

How did we get back to the 400hp 3000lbs argument again? Your "needs" need introduced back to reality Fishey. That won't happen for any price in the 30-40k bracket, not even the 40-50k, and I still don't see it in the 50-60k range either. Losing 200+ lbs in a car from one generation to the next, keep in mind, crash testing, additional safety features, etc, it's not very feasable. Reducing weight costs money, a lot of it. In reality I don't believe the Z will be seen as a front runner for sales and not it's main objective. It has no back seat mind you...

I believe strongly the special ingredient Nissan is adding is a more pure and organic driving experience, more purpose, and more rewarding. I do see weight reduction in the mix, but nothing drastic. I also see more power in the mix, but I have doubts it will reach 400hp unless they decide a detuned and updated VR38 based engine as the way forward. I would be interested in seeing DI and VVEL implemented, even if it takes some growing pains for the community.

Remember people, the Z is imported here, and will reflect on prices.

Chuck33079 · 05-29-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

How did we get back to the 400hp 3000lbs argument again? Your "needs" need introduced back to reality Fishey. That won't happen for any price in the 30-40k bracket, not even the 40-50k, and I still don't see it in the 50-60k range either. Losing 200+ lbs in a car from one generation to the next, keep in mind, crash testing, additional safety features, etc, it's not very feasable. Reducing weight costs money, a lot of it. In reality I don't believe the Z will be seen as a front runner for sales and not it's main objective. It has no back seat mind you...

I believe strongly the special ingredient Nissan is adding is a more pure and organic driving experience, more purpose, and more rewarding. I do see weight reduction in the mix, but nothing drastic. I also see more power in the mix, but I have doubts it will reach 400hp unless they decide a detuned and updated VR38 based engine as the way forward. I would be interested in seeing DI and VVEL implemented, even if it takes some growing pains for the community.

Remember people, the Z is imported here, and will reflect on prices.

Every bit of this.

We can't really say "make it better in every measurable category and make it cheaper too". That's never going to happen.

JungleZ · 05-29-2013, 05:27 PM

I still wanna know why prices were raised. When i got into the lease it was 32k base total now it's close to 33k 34k after taxes everything non sport package is not a good deal.

Footloose301 · 05-29-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

Nope/

This article has about as much credibility as I do.

Doesn't really match Nissan's design language. The lines are all over the place. It's too 'chopped together.

Pretty sure that ugly-*** Juke was made with horrible body lines

Wabbyyy · 05-29-2013, 06:50 PM

Doesn't like that bad.

7speed · 05-29-2013, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

A base Z that sold in the $32-$35k range with 300hp, and an upscale Z in the $40-$45k range with 370-400hp is really the way to go.

The base would be for people who want to step up from the Toyobaru 200hp and lack of amenities. The upscale will be for people who want something different from an American V8. Anything higher than that is terrible, the new Corvette starting price is $52k.

Can Nissan meet those price points and retain quality?

U might be on to something . Not sure if anyone mentioned this but why not go back to 90-96 days . There was na and turbo versions.

250z turbo ------265hp.
370z ------350hp.
Nismo 370 -----380hp

Or
370z ----350hp
Nismo 370 Turbo----420hp

7speed · 05-29-2013, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

How did we get back to the 400hp 3000lbs argument again? Your "needs" need introduced back to reality Fishey. That won't happen for any price in the 30-40k bracket, not even the 40-50k, and I still don't see it in the 50-60k range either. Losing 200+ lbs in a car from one generation to the next, keep in mind, crash testing, additional safety features, etc, it's not very feasable. Reducing weight costs money, a lot of it. In reality I don't believe the Z will be seen as a front runner for sales and not it's main objective. It has no back seat mind you...

I believe strongly the special ingredient Nissan is adding is a more pure and organic driving experience, more purpose, and more rewarding. I do see weight reduction in the mix, but nothing drastic. I also see more power in the mix, but I have doubts it will reach 400hp unless they decide a detuned and updated VR38 based engine as the way forward. I would be interested in seeing DI and VVEL implemented, even if it takes some growing pains for the community.

Remember people, the Z is imported here, and will reflect on prices.

Yeah I don't know y people think in the modern car era that 3200 is heavy. If z is on same platform as q and fx it is gonna be hard to drop much more weight.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-29-2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

I still wanna know why prices were raised. When i got into the lease it was 32k base total now it's close to 33k 34k after taxes everything non sport package is not a good deal.

I guess part of it is the yen. The other part may or may not be they need to make up the profits for low sales?

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-29-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7speed

Yeah I don't know y people think in the modern car era that 3200 is heavy FOR A V6. If z is on same platform as q and fx it is gonna be hard to drop much more weight.

Fixed.

I agree but the Z can stand to lose weight and try to reduce some front heaviness.

Z_ealot · 05-29-2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Fixed.

I agree but the Z can stand to lose weight and try to reduce some front heaviness.

i'd say based on the curb weight of the new q50 as i said before we can probably expect around a 100lb. drop in weight. as some people may have noticed nissan has been pretty hellbent on dropping weight across their entire lineup with everything from the altima to the sentra seeing about a 100lb. drop in weight compared to their previous generations. At this point though it's all speculation, but im fairly optimistic that nissan can accomplish the drop in weight on the Z. As for the engine i would say around the current horsepower would still be sufficient, i mean look at porsche they didnt really add much more horsepower to their new 911/cayman, but they did drop some weight so i sortof expect nissan to follow the same line of thinking.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-30-2013, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

i'd say based on the curb weight of the new q50 as i said before we can probably expect around a 100lb. drop in weight. as some people may have noticed nissan has been pretty hellbent on dropping weight across their entire lineup with everything from the altima to the sentra seeing about a 100lb. drop in weight compared to their previous generations. At this point though it's all speculation, but im fairly optimistic that nissan can accomplish the drop in weight on the Z. As for the engine i would say around the current horsepower would still be sufficient, i mean look at porsche they didnt really add much more horsepower to their new 911/cayman, but they did drop some weight so i sortof expect nissan to follow the same line of thinking.

I expect so as well. The curb weight of the Q50 is 3574lbs. The G37 sedan is 3703, lbs. Which is roughly 129lbs. I'm hoping with the Z they can get closer to 200lbs. I think Nissan needs to let go of big nav units for the Z. I think if they go with an altima style nav system but just give it a slightly more upscale look with the surrounding materials. It would instantly save an extra 20lbs. Power seating is the most unnecessary luuxury in the Z. They can do cloth and leather, but why we need power seats? I don't get it. Plus our interiors have too many thick plastics. We can keep the materials upscale looking but design the interior to to be more minimalist in use of plastic paneling. There's plenty of things we can adjust to hit that 200lb mark.
What sucks is, the z has again gained another approx 45lbs adding oil cooler and DRL's. So i hope they find some engine weight reduction to compensate for the oil cooler next gen.

The altima sedan is 3100lbs. There's no reason the Z can't weigh the same or less. crazy huh?

m4a1mustang · 05-30-2013, 08:39 AM

Yeah but just remember they stuff a lot of beefy bits in the Z that they don't in the Altima. Drivetrain, reinforcements, etc. Adds up.

05-29-2013, 03:13 PM	#138 (permalink)
Fishey Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lebanon Posts: 159 Drives: Volvo T5-R Rep Power: 12	The Recipe for success isn't very hard. The car has to sell in the low 30k range fully loaded just below 40k. It needs to be north of 400bhp and weight needs to be less then 3,000lbs. Anything less and it will not be a front runner and share the same sales fate as the current 370z. The current mustang GT is 420hp and 3500lbs with a retail cost of 31k invoice as low as 28k so Nissan has to beat those specs and cost or get out of the game because they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. Last edited by Fishey; 05-29-2013 at 03:20 PM.

05-29-2013, 04:26 PM	#139 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	How did we get back to the 400hp 3000lbs argument again? Your "needs" need introduced back to reality Fishey. That won't happen for any price in the 30-40k bracket, not even the 40-50k, and I still don't see it in the 50-60k range either. Losing 200+ lbs in a car from one generation to the next, keep in mind, crash testing, additional safety features, etc, it's not very feasable. Reducing weight costs money, a lot of it. In reality I don't believe the Z will be seen as a front runner for sales and not it's main objective. It has no back seat mind you... I believe strongly the special ingredient Nissan is adding is a more pure and organic driving experience, more purpose, and more rewarding. I do see weight reduction in the mix, but nothing drastic. I also see more power in the mix, but I have doubts it will reach 400hp unless they decide a detuned and updated VR38 based engine as the way forward. I would be interested in seeing DI and VVEL implemented, even if it takes some growing pains for the community. Remember people, the Z is imported here, and will reflect on prices. b15 and ZBro16 like this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

05-29-2013, 06:50 PM	#143 (permalink)
Wabbyyy Base Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: New Jersey Age: 30 Posts: 126 Drives: 2009 370z Rep Power: 12	Doesn't like that bad. __________________ 2009 370z.

05-30-2013, 08:39 AM	#150 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Yeah but just remember they stuff a lot of beefy bits in the Z that they don't in the Altima. Drivetrain, reinforcements, etc. Adds up. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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05-29-2013, 02:33 PM	#136 (permalink)
ElVee Track Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 750 Drives: 13 370z 7at t+s grey Rep Power: 16	Would a discussion of the possible death of the Mitsu EVO be appropriate? Sort of a mini-godzilla AWD? That could allow the Z to shift downward. At least Nissan has all these exciting possibilities.

05-29-2013, 03:00 PM	#137 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 12	A base Z that sold in the $32-$35k range with 300hp, and an upscale Z in the $40-$45k range with 370-400hp is really the way to go. The base would be for people who want to step up from the Toyobaru 200hp and lack of amenities. The upscale will be for people who want something different from an American V8. Anything higher than that is terrible, the new Corvette starting price is $52k. Can Nissan meet those price points and retain quality?

05-29-2013, 05:27 PM	#141 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	I still wanna know why prices were raised. When i got into the lease it was 32k base total now it's close to 33k 34k after taxes everything non sport package is not a good deal.