Driving Impressions: New 911 S vs. Z
 

Was driving by my local Porsche dealership this weekend and decided it would be a good day to test drive a Cayman, as I've always wanted to and have some interest in the new model once it's released early next year (to be announced at LA Autoshow in November). The dealer didn't have any Cayman S' nor were any of the base Caymans stick, so I decided that the test drive wouldn't really be helpful for a comparison to the Z.

However, the sales guy insisted that the new 911 drives a lot like the cayman does with it's different weight distribution and longer, wider, wheel base. We took out a Carrera S that was spec'd out pretty heavily ($120k sticker!) with Sport suspension, sport exhaust, etc.

I live in SF but went to the dealership in Marin which is very hilly and has some great mountain roads. The sales guy drove first and ripped this thing up the mountain. It was a car with 1000+ miles on it so it was already broken in pretty well and they weren't selling it to the general public so he drove it like he stole it.

Car was hugely impressive. 400hp from a 3.8L NA 6 cyclinder... that's sexy. And Porsche offers (for 2013) a tuned spec with 430hp - that's crazy NA power! The power came on heavy after 2500 rpm all the way up to redline (but we only went up to about 6500 as there wasn't enough road for us). The car is so planted in the corners and the brakes are so reassuring, even from the passenger seat. I've never driven a 997 (only a 996 turbo) so I wasn't able to make a comparison, but he said it's MUCH more surefooted in the corners now than the previous generation and wow was it ever. The other amazing factor about this car is that the hood drops off so suddenly that your forward vision is amazing. Unlike the long hood of the Z which feel's very muscle car like, the 911 drops low so you can see very close in front of the car and the fenders bulge at the side of the car so you know exactly where the wheels are. Plus the A-pillar is very thin so forward vision is further enhanced. I was curious how the factory sport exhaust would sound, and it was sexy and mean - definitely delivered. Power compared to my car (with simple bolt-ons) didn't feel drastically different, but the power delivery in the 911 was much smoother. But I wouldn't buy a Porsche for all out power, it's the road feel and precision where you really get some value.

Once we got back down the other side of the hill it was my turn, so I took the car back up the hill and to the dealer (about 5 miles). It was mind blowing how different my car felt once I got into it immediately afterwards. The road feel in the 911 is 2x our car, it's that good. The electronic steering is fantastic and doesn't feel digital at all. Very responsive and VERY precise. My god this car is good. I still dont' think it warrants a price tag that large (I'd probably opt for an R8 if I was dropping that much cash) but this car offers something so special. I think the Cayman S will be amazing as it will offer very similar performance and feedback for $70-80k.

For $30k our car offers a very unique experience, but Porsche's really are at a whole other level. The Z truly is a baby Porsche and I love that I can get 75% of the experience for a fraction of the price. I plan on looking at other cars next year once I've been promoted, and the new Cayman will definitely be on the list along with the C7.

It's no surprise that the new 911 won the driver's car of the year award for 2012.

4 times the price, 4 times the car.

I totally agree with your review. The Z checks off 90% of what a Porsche Cayman can deliver, but it's that extra 10% that makes it perfect. Hopefully the next generation Z can bridge that gap closer while retaining the affordability factor.

Great review, thank you.

Which hill did you drive? Did they take you up Tamalpais? I have been procrastinating going to the same dealership. I think it is my time too.

A few questions!

1. When you say that the power delivery is smoother, do you mean its like a "rising surge" of power? I've always noticed that the Z in certain gears are more of a sudden burst (2nd gear 7AT) where power is mostly delivered in the middle of the gears (in my experience).
2. I expected my Z to have a better feel of the road when taking turns. I've always noticed that the steering a little "numb" when I'm taking corners at a relatively high speed. Would you say that the Porsche doesn't have that "numb" feeling?
3. How close, in your opinion, could I make my Z to a 997 with aftermarket parts? (Suspension, bolt-ons, tires, etc.)

you make me wanna go for a Porche instead of a Lotus for my next car!!!!!! However, It's still a long way for me to have that much money to afford a Porche xD

PM great review

He took me up Camino Alto. Sales guys name was Brett Payne, he's Aussie - really cool guy.

I don't think I'll be able to buy a new Porsche until I really start making some good cash but I will say as much as I love Lotus', porsche deliver a more complete picture - meaning they offer a car that's fun AND comfortable to drive in. I would love to buy an exige but I'm not sure I can have my only car be a go-kart. I'd rather have a sexy interior with amenities while also enjoying outrageous performance and driver satisfaction.

Forgive my ignorance
 

I thought the Cayman was a hardtop Boxster? Not correct? There is one is my area with a guy more middle aged than me trying to race my litte red Z. Right...

OP: the 911 does not drive close to a Cayman. Sales guy was being a sales guy to get you to try something. :D

The 911 is a great drive and has plenty of fantastic attributes, but from a feel and purist of sports car perspective you owe it to yourself to drive a Cayman. Comparing a new 991 to the outgoing 987 Cayman may not be that fair, but there still are significant differences either way (until the new 981 arrives).

I love the Z for what it is: a good value package. I rate it as 75% of a Cayman (which to me is the logical comparison vs. a 911). The Porsche has better steering feel, better rotation, better chassis manners, and is a lighter package. The Z gives you more value per creature comfort and more raw power. Power isn't everything however.

- b

Thank you for Bretts name. I will make sure to drive far away from Seminary drive.

Camino Alto for those who do not live here, is the Old Highway, and one hell of a fun place to drive. One turn after another. I once lived at one end and drove it every day for a year. A great road to sell a Porsche on. The Police know this too.

1) Smoother probably wasn't the best adjective, but I'll explain what I meant. The power is just very immediate and linear. Also, the motor is buttery smooth, and that feeling just adds to the whole feel of the car. The throttle is also very precise and quick, so you can very easily moderate how much power you want and it happens instantly. All the pieces work so well together that it just makes for a "smooth" interaction.
2) Yes, I agree with you. Even after I installed Swift springs which definitely helped the car feel more aggressive and planted, high speed corners in our car can feel slightly uneasy especially if there is a bump. I know coil-overs and sway bars would help even more but it will never give as much feedback as the Porsche will. This car is the epitome of road feel. I've yet to drive a Ferrari or other exotic, but it's been argued throughout the industry that Porsche delivers the best connection between driver and road.
3) FYI the new Porsche is a 991 (997 is the previous body style that was just retired). I can't say for sure as I haven't ridden in an extremely modded Z but it would take a lot and even if you did everything you'll never get the perfect harmony that Porsche achieves. Everything just works so well together. It's truly art work! Go drive one and you'll see what I'm talking about.

*P.S. the other amazing factor about this car is that the hood drops off so suddenly that your vision is amazing. Unlike the long hood of the Z which feel's very muscle car like, the 911 drops low so you can see very close in front of the car and the fenders bulge at the side of the car so you know exactly where the wheels are. Plus the A-pillar is very thin so forward vision is further enhanced.

Yes, basically - and the Boxter is an amazing platform - but the NEW boxter is even better and it finally has the looks that no longer keep it in the "lady's car" category. The Cayman is more rigid and looks better than the Boxter though, but the new one should look really good as the roofline has been extended backward to be more of a fastback. Google 2013 cayman and you'll see spyshots.

The other reason it's a great demo road is that the surface is pretty shitty in some turns, so it really goes to show how well the car is planted even when the surface is less then ideal.

While I will surely test-drive the new Cayman for the true experience, I think you're wrong and here's why. The new 911 is DRASTICALLY different than the old car and addressed all the criticism of the rear-biased car. Every magazine has emphasized this. If you drive one you'll see what I mean. He was VERY knowledge about Porsches and you could tell he was being truthful. He openly told me that he is planning on buying the new Cayman as well (he currently is leasing a 2012 WRX until the new one is released). He wanted to give me the best comparison to the current Cayman S and even advised me to not drive the base Cayman which they had on the lot at the time. He knew i wasn't in the market for a 911 and couldn't afford it. He just wanted me to have the most similar experience.

I thought he was just talk until we hit the road. This machine is extreme. Remember, I've a driven a friend's 996 turbo on twisties as well... so I can compare to that car and it behaved VERY different.

don't be so cocky. if its a cayman S he's pushin 300bhp

Interesting comparison between the new Boxster S and the 2012 911. It shows just how good the Boxster has gotten. The Cayman S will no doubt be even closer.

FYI, the new Boxter S run a 4.4 0-60... See above

Have you ever test drive a Lotus exige ? I have never try it out yet, but I heard that it's a best handling car. My first sport car was Rx-8, and i'm not a fast driver, so I usually fall in love with good handling vehicles. Is Porsche deliver better handling than a Lotus ?

PM yea Lotus interior is suck as hell :icon18:

I drove a Lotus Exige at the track. It's a great handling car, but the 911 can still do donuts around you as the Lotus just doesn't have the horsepower. The novelty of great handling wears off pretty quick when you have to climb in and out of the car, also you know how annoying it is to not have a rear view mirror?

There is a reason why many Lotus owners don't keep their cars!

120k for a Carrera S. Damn, that's literally creeping into 911 Turbo territory.

Thanks for your review. Aren't there enough mods to close the gap on the handling department? I'm thinking suspension, tires, breaks, and sway bar. Even without electronic steering, there is a way to take the handling of the Z somewhere in Porsche territory.

Sounds like a humbling experience. I think we can appreciate the car we drive, no matter the level of experience. There is something so incredible about a Porsche 911.

Really nice review! I drive the new 911's yearly over here. Easily rented at Avis in Stuttgart or any other major city.
With the 911 you get what you pay for. No question. Thanks for posting this up.
That being said the Z offers a fantastic, dynamic driving experience as well. Being able to actually and legally use the power here is key. Its called the Japanese 911 here in Germany.

Well done on the drive and I hope you do obtain your Porsche. Worth every cent! Also get over here and tour the 911 factory!! Its a great experience and then rent a 911 and drive it the way it was meant to be driven on the Autobahn!

You could, but the experience is still not the same. Also you are not driving a Porsche 911....

I spent some time comparing my car to my friend's GT3. At the end of the day, I just have to accept his car is way faster and way better. Still I sometimes wonder if it is worth 4x the money as it is not 4x faster.

Someone should compare a Mercedes G class to the Z next time.

Porsche's are great cars I just hate the massive list of options. The 911S is 90K base but there are about 60k in options available. Same goes for the more expensive models you'd be hard pressed to find one with little to no options.

That's pretty much how it works in the "luxury" brand. I recently bought a Lexus and the MSRP was $9K over the base price due to all the options

If I am going to drop 100k it's going to be on the GTR.

I smoked a 911 Carrara 4s.

If you want to compare a Z to the 911 then compare the Nismo which has performance in mind and not the base or sport.

Of course the price difference even in the Cayman you can have upgrades that will not only put the Z on the same performance level, but surpass it.

To me if I am going to spent a ton on performance ill just get the best they have and go with the GTR and call it a day.

If you own a Z you understand that you don't always buy a car to be the fastest on the road. GTRs are fast cars but they are not a Porsche.

From a numbers perspective sure however some of the replies (mine included) are of the ilk that its not all about the numbers. There are other things in play, such as basic physics (which I don't know how I can be 'wrong' about...hehe), and the subjective feel of the machine. The GT-R pulls insane numbers for its size, an engineering marvel. It will never feel light or tossible on a back country road going 30-50 mph.

Some cars have a feel that is verym very hard to match. BMW has it with the 3 series. Lotus and Mazda have small roadsters. Porsche has their thing too.

Having spent significant time in a 987 Cayman, being down 1l and 70 HP or so to the Z it still has a much different feel in both basic handling and power delivery. I'm hardly a brand snob (strait, miata fan here. yes they exist), but the experience of the Cayman is far better then the Z. 2X the price better?

To me, no way.

But if they are close.....well, its trade offs at that point. Picked up our 07 Cayman (my wife's DD) for < 40K with warranty and 14K on the ticker.

Now you are talking about a 5-7K premium. Is it worth it?

To me, hells yeah.

The 911 is a different category IMHO. Its larger, cost far more, is a 2+2, and is the epitome of engineering for the brand. It teeters the edge of sports car and ultimate GT depending on packaging.

- b

You're missing the point of why the 911 is so good. Yes the GTR is faster, but it's much less of a drivers car and less engaging = not as much fun.

Also, what did you smoke a 4S in? Surely not the Z. I'm telling you this new 991 model is ridiculous.

I'm assuming you're new to the Z scene otherwise you'd know the Nismo is basically a Sport package with a bodykit and exhaust... Albeit a sexy body kit :)

I think it's hard to quantify something as subjective as "feel". I personally like the way the Z drives. I also liked how my old RX-8 drove...and having the chance to drive a Ferrari F430 was a blast for a whole host of different reasons. The 911 is far from perfect. It's an engineering marvel for taming a car with an engine positioned behind the back wheels, but I still think the best formula for a road going sports car is front engine & rwd/awd. The new F12 comes to mind.

The new Carrera S has 400HP

The novelty of driving a Lotus Exige would quickly wear off. You'd really need to be obsessed with the car to drive it daily.

A good friend of mine just bought a Lotus Exige with all the track package goodies. Last I talked with Mike (bigdog1250), we briefly discussed the Lotus Exige. Again, any owner that drives a Lotus Exige daily is insane. It's a purpose built track car and the novelty quickly wears off. But I'm also 6'5", so driving the Exige was a major pain in the ***.

Owning a Lotus Exige in San Francisco would really suck!

another time I raced the car I had to throw my air Jordan on the passenger floor as the pedals were too close for my shoes

My father in law just bought a boxster. He got a little sports car envy from my Z and had to buy what he thought would be better than my car. A used boxster. lol. Thats how he is. He does it to his own kids. His other son in law bought an F-250. He sold his truck and bought an F-350 king ranch 6 months later. Just throwing that in there...
That said, porsche's are awesome... These new introductions are way too advanced for the Z to be compared. One thing about the Z though. They are going for this hybrid, sports car/muscle car mix. The porsche is more like sports car/semi exotic mix. The Z tries to match performance and capabilities on track. I think they kinda neglect the refinements in order to give you a functional package at low cost.
Right now, I'd be happier if they can at minimum match this motors power on a turbo 4 and give us the on paper stats of the newer porsche. If we lose some refined feel? so be it. My expectations from a sub $40k car aren't that high...

But this is one of the best reviews I've read thus far. some are right in saying driving the cayman is a closer comparo. But it's nice knowing that the Z can still be exciting to someone who drove the end all be all to road sports cars sub 100k.

Apparently the 370z was designed more as a rival to the Cayman than the 911. To my eyes, the Z's design/body looks similar to the 911 with a wide,low, muscular stance and sloped, bulging rear end.
The key difference is where the engine sits: over the front axle vs. behind the rear axle. Rear-wheel drive vs. available All-wheel drive.

I actually have a 991C2S custom order coming in November. I'll be posting lots of pics and driving impressions (already test drove 3 times :tup:) but I do agree with everything you said. Truly is a unbelievable car. I don't recommend for anyone to test drive one though, because they will never consider any car brand again besides Porsche. Even worth the 20k more than the GTR in my humble opinion. Cannot WAIT to get mine.

Congrats on the upcoming new ride. Can't wait for pics and review. I wish i could afford a porsche. Maybe one day, i'll get a used one?

I've owned a 370Z (all options) for 4 years and just test drove a 2013 Carrera S. You can't even compare the cars, the Porsche is on a whole different level, but of course it's also more expensive.

911: Felt light and nimble, when put in Sport Plus mode the sound was amazing, felt noticeably quicker than the Z, visibility much better, interior quality makes the Z look like Fisher Price, and I felt really at one with the car. Basically it's a supercar and feels like one.

Z: Still a quick car for it's class but the driving experience feels like I'm in a heavy submarine compared to the 911

The options pricing are high on the Carrera S though. Base is $97k but with all of the upgrades you'll be up to $150k+. I'm ordering mine with PDK, Chrono, sport steering wheel, suspension, PDLS, sat radio, and platinum wheels and should be around $109k MSRP. I really don't care about all that fancy extra stuff - I'm buying the car for one reason, to drive it.

Conclusion: The Z is an excellent, fun, fast sports car for its price range. It was the best sports coupe I've driven since the 911 but once you drive the 911 you'll quickly realize all of the imperfections of the Z.