Driving Impressions: New 911 S vs. Z

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 01:09 PM

Was driving by my local Porsche dealership this weekend and decided it would be a good day to test drive a Cayman, as I've always wanted to and have some interest in the new model once it's released early next year (to be announced at LA Autoshow in November). The dealer didn't have any Cayman S' nor were any of the base Caymans stick, so I decided that the test drive wouldn't really be helpful for a comparison to the Z.

However, the sales guy insisted that the new 911 drives a lot like the cayman does with it's different weight distribution and longer, wider, wheel base. We took out a Carrera S that was spec'd out pretty heavily ($120k sticker!) with Sport suspension, sport exhaust, etc.

I live in SF but went to the dealership in Marin which is very hilly and has some great mountain roads. The sales guy drove first and ripped this thing up the mountain. It was a car with 1000+ miles on it so it was already broken in pretty well and they weren't selling it to the general public so he drove it like he stole it.

Car was hugely impressive. 400hp from a 3.8L NA 6 cyclinder... that's sexy. And Porsche offers (for 2013) a tuned spec with 430hp - that's crazy NA power! The power came on heavy after 2500 rpm all the way up to redline (but we only went up to about 6500 as there wasn't enough road for us). The car is so planted in the corners and the brakes are so reassuring, even from the passenger seat. I've never driven a 997 (only a 996 turbo) so I wasn't able to make a comparison, but he said it's MUCH more surefooted in the corners now than the previous generation and wow was it ever. The other amazing factor about this car is that the hood drops off so suddenly that your forward vision is amazing. Unlike the long hood of the Z which feel's very muscle car like, the 911 drops low so you can see very close in front of the car and the fenders bulge at the side of the car so you know exactly where the wheels are. Plus the A-pillar is very thin so forward vision is further enhanced. I was curious how the factory sport exhaust would sound, and it was sexy and mean - definitely delivered. Power compared to my car (with simple bolt-ons) didn't feel drastically different, but the power delivery in the 911 was much smoother. But I wouldn't buy a Porsche for all out power, it's the road feel and precision where you really get some value.

Once we got back down the other side of the hill it was my turn, so I took the car back up the hill and to the dealer (about 5 miles). It was mind blowing how different my car felt once I got into it immediately afterwards. The road feel in the 911 is 2x our car, it's that good. The electronic steering is fantastic and doesn't feel digital at all. Very responsive and VERY precise. My god this car is good. I still dont' think it warrants a price tag that large (I'd probably opt for an R8 if I was dropping that much cash) but this car offers something so special. I think the Cayman S will be amazing as it will offer very similar performance and feedback for $70-80k.

For $30k our car offers a very unique experience, but Porsche's really are at a whole other level. The Z truly is a baby Porsche and I love that I can get 75% of the experience for a fraction of the price. I plan on looking at other cars next year once I've been promoted, and the new Cayman will definitely be on the list along with the C7.

It's no surprise that the new 911 won the driver's car of the year award for 2012.

cooltoy · 10-15-2012, 01:37 PM

4 times the price, 4 times the car.

Cmike2780 · 10-15-2012, 01:48 PM

I totally agree with your review. The Z checks off 90% of what a Porsche Cayman can deliver, but it's that extra 10% that makes it perfect. Hopefully the next generation Z can bridge that gap closer while retaining the affordability factor.

Mt Tam I am · 10-15-2012, 01:56 PM

Great review, thank you.

Which hill did you drive? Did they take you up Tamalpais? I have been procrastinating going to the same dealership. I think it is my time too.

EndyKwon · 10-15-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog1250

Power compared to my car (with simple bolt-ons) didn't feel drastically different, but the power delivery in the 911 was much smoother.

The road feel in the 911 is 2x our car, it's that good. The electronic steering is fantastic and doesn't feel digital at all. Very responsive and VERY precise.

The Z truly is a baby Porsche and I love that I can get 75% of the experience for a fraction of the price..

A few questions!

When you say that the power delivery is smoother, do you mean its like a "rising surge" of power? I've always noticed that the Z in certain gears are more of a sudden burst (2nd gear 7AT) where power is mostly delivered in the middle of the gears (in my experience).
I expected my Z to have a better feel of the road when taking turns. I've always noticed that the steering a little "numb" when I'm taking corners at a relatively high speed. Would you say that the Porsche doesn't have that "numb" feeling?
How close, in your opinion, could I make my Z to a 997 with aftermarket parts? (Suspension, bolt-ons, tires, etc.)

obito · 10-15-2012, 02:49 PM

you make me wanna go for a Porche instead of a Lotus for my next car!!!!!! However, It's still a long way for me to have that much money to afford a Porche xD

PM great review

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

Great review, thank you.

Which hill did you drive? Did they take you up Tamalpais? I have been procrastinating going to the same dealership. I think it is my time too.

He took me up Camino Alto. Sales guys name was Brett Payne, he's Aussie - really cool guy.

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obito

you make me wanna go for a Porche instead of a Lotus for my next car!!!!!! However, It's still a long way for me to have that much money to afford a Porche xD

PM great review

I don't think I'll be able to buy a new Porsche until I really start making some good cash but I will say as much as I love Lotus', porsche deliver a more complete picture - meaning they offer a car that's fun AND comfortable to drive in. I would love to buy an exige but I'm not sure I can have my only car be a go-kart. I'd rather have a sexy interior with amenities while also enjoying outrageous performance and driver satisfaction.

Inspector71 · 10-15-2012, 03:28 PM

I thought the Cayman was a hardtop Boxster? Not correct? There is one is my area with a guy more middle aged than me trying to race my litte red Z. Right...

bvl · 10-15-2012, 03:33 PM

OP: the 911 does not drive close to a Cayman. Sales guy was being a sales guy to get you to try something.

The 911 is a great drive and has plenty of fantastic attributes, but from a feel and purist of sports car perspective you owe it to yourself to drive a Cayman. Comparing a new 991 to the outgoing 987 Cayman may not be that fair, but there still are significant differences either way (until the new 981 arrives).

I love the Z for what it is: a good value package. I rate it as 75% of a Cayman (which to me is the logical comparison vs. a 911). The Porsche has better steering feel, better rotation, better chassis manners, and is a lighter package. The Z gives you more value per creature comfort and more raw power. Power isn't everything however.

- b

Mt Tam I am · 10-15-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog1250

He took me up Camino Alto. Sales guys name was Brett Payne, he's Aussie - really cool guy.

Thank you for Bretts name. I will make sure to drive far away from Seminary drive.

Camino Alto for those who do not live here, is the Old Highway, and one hell of a fun place to drive. One turn after another. I once lived at one end and drove it every day for a year. A great road to sell a Porsche on. The Police know this too.

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndyKwon

A few questions!

When you say that the power delivery is smoother, do you mean its like a "rising surge" of power? I've always noticed that the Z in certain gears are more of a sudden burst (2nd gear 7AT) where power is mostly delivered in the middle of the gears (in my experience).
I expected my Z to have a better feel of the road when taking turns. I've always noticed that the steering a little "numb" when I'm taking corners at a relatively high speed. Would you say that the Porsche doesn't have that "numb" feeling?
How close, in your opinion, could I make my Z to a 997 with aftermarket parts? (Suspension, bolt-ons, tires, etc.)

1) Smoother probably wasn't the best adjective, but I'll explain what I meant. The power is just very immediate and linear. Also, the motor is buttery smooth, and that feeling just adds to the whole feel of the car. The throttle is also very precise and quick, so you can very easily moderate how much power you want and it happens instantly. All the pieces work so well together that it just makes for a "smooth" interaction.
2) Yes, I agree with you. Even after I installed Swift springs which definitely helped the car feel more aggressive and planted, high speed corners in our car can feel slightly uneasy especially if there is a bump. I know coil-overs and sway bars would help even more but it will never give as much feedback as the Porsche will. This car is the epitome of road feel. I've yet to drive a Ferrari or other exotic, but it's been argued throughout the industry that Porsche delivers the best connection between driver and road.
3) FYI the new Porsche is a 991 (997 is the previous body style that was just retired). I can't say for sure as I haven't ridden in an extremely modded Z but it would take a lot and even if you did everything you'll never get the perfect harmony that Porsche achieves. Everything just works so well together. It's truly art work! Go drive one and you'll see what I'm talking about.

*P.S. the other amazing factor about this car is that the hood drops off so suddenly that your vision is amazing. Unlike the long hood of the Z which feel's very muscle car like, the 911 drops low so you can see very close in front of the car and the fenders bulge at the side of the car so you know exactly where the wheels are. Plus the A-pillar is very thin so forward vision is further enhanced.

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspector71

I thought the Cayman was a hardtop Boxster? Not correct? There is one is my area with a guy more middle aged than me trying to race my litte red Z. Right...

Yes, basically - and the Boxter is an amazing platform - but the NEW boxter is even better and it finally has the looks that no longer keep it in the "lady's car" category. The Cayman is more rigid and looks better than the Boxter though, but the new one should look really good as the roofline has been extended backward to be more of a fastback. Google 2013 cayman and you'll see spyshots.

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

Thank you for Bretts name. I will make sure to drive far away from Seminary drive.

Camino Alto for those who do not live here, is the Old Highway, and one hell of a fun place to drive. One turn after another. I once lived at one end and drove it every day for a year. A great road to sell a Porsche on. The Police know this too.

The other reason it's a great demo road is that the surface is pretty shitty in some turns, so it really goes to show how well the car is planted even when the surface is less then ideal.

bigdog1250 · 10-15-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvl

OP: the 911 does not drive close to a Cayman. Sales guy was being a sales guy to get you to try something.

The 911 is a great drive and has plenty of fantastic attributes, but from a feel and purist of sports car perspective you owe it to yourself to drive a Cayman. Comparing a new 991 to the outgoing 987 Cayman may not be that fair, but there still are significant differences either way (until the new 981 arrives).

I love the Z for what it is: a good value package. I rate it as 75% of a Cayman (which to me is the logical comparison vs. a 911). The Porsche has better steering feel, better rotation, better chassis manners, and is a lighter package. The Z gives you more value per creature comfort and more raw power. Power isn't everything however.

- b

While I will surely test-drive the new Cayman for the true experience, I think you're wrong and here's why. The new 911 is DRASTICALLY different than the old car and addressed all the criticism of the rear-biased car. Every magazine has emphasized this. If you drive one you'll see what I mean. He was VERY knowledge about Porsches and you could tell he was being truthful. He openly told me that he is planning on buying the new Cayman as well (he currently is leasing a 2012 WRX until the new one is released). He wanted to give me the best comparison to the current Cayman S and even advised me to not drive the base Cayman which they had on the lot at the time. He knew i wasn't in the market for a 911 and couldn't afford it. He just wanted me to have the most similar experience.

I thought he was just talk until we hit the road. This machine is extreme. Remember, I've a driven a friend's 996 turbo on twisties as well... so I can compare to that car and it behaved VERY different.

10-15-2012, 01:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
bigdog1250 Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 846 Drives: 991.2 GT3 Rep Power: 17	Driving Impressions: New 911 S vs. Z Was driving by my local Porsche dealership this weekend and decided it would be a good day to test drive a Cayman, as I've always wanted to and have some interest in the new model once it's released early next year (to be announced at LA Autoshow in November). The dealer didn't have any Cayman S' nor were any of the base Caymans stick, so I decided that the test drive wouldn't really be helpful for a comparison to the Z. However, the sales guy insisted that the new 911 drives a lot like the cayman does with it's different weight distribution and longer, wider, wheel base. We took out a Carrera S that was spec'd out pretty heavily ($120k sticker!) with Sport suspension, sport exhaust, etc. I live in SF but went to the dealership in Marin which is very hilly and has some great mountain roads. The sales guy drove first and ripped this thing up the mountain. It was a car with 1000+ miles on it so it was already broken in pretty well and they weren't selling it to the general public so he drove it like he stole it. Car was hugely impressive. 400hp from a 3.8L NA 6 cyclinder... that's sexy. And Porsche offers (for 2013) a tuned spec with 430hp - that's crazy NA power! The power came on heavy after 2500 rpm all the way up to redline (but we only went up to about 6500 as there wasn't enough road for us). The car is so planted in the corners and the brakes are so reassuring, even from the passenger seat. I've never driven a 997 (only a 996 turbo) so I wasn't able to make a comparison, but he said it's MUCH more surefooted in the corners now than the previous generation and wow was it ever. The other amazing factor about this car is that the hood drops off so suddenly that your forward vision is amazing. Unlike the long hood of the Z which feel's very muscle car like, the 911 drops low so you can see very close in front of the car and the fenders bulge at the side of the car so you know exactly where the wheels are. Plus the A-pillar is very thin so forward vision is further enhanced. I was curious how the factory sport exhaust would sound, and it was sexy and mean - definitely delivered. Power compared to my car (with simple bolt-ons) didn't feel drastically different, but the power delivery in the 911 was much smoother. But I wouldn't buy a Porsche for all out power, it's the road feel and precision where you really get some value. Once we got back down the other side of the hill it was my turn, so I took the car back up the hill and to the dealer (about 5 miles). It was mind blowing how different my car felt once I got into it immediately afterwards. The road feel in the 911 is 2x our car, it's that good. The electronic steering is fantastic and doesn't feel digital at all. Very responsive and VERY precise. My god this car is good. I still dont' think it warrants a price tag that large (I'd probably opt for an R8 if I was dropping that much cash) but this car offers something so special. I think the Cayman S will be amazing as it will offer very similar performance and feedback for $70-80k. For $30k our car offers a very unique experience, but Porsche's really are at a whole other level. The Z truly is a baby Porsche and I love that I can get 75% of the experience for a fraction of the price. I plan on looking at other cars next year once I've been promoted, and the new Cayman will definitely be on the list along with the C7. It's no surprise that the new 911 won the driver's car of the year award for 2012. coltrain, MDZOwner, DLSTR and 3 others like this. __________________ 350z / 40th 370z / C6 Z06 / BMW M4 / V10 R8 / C7 Grand Spot / 997.1 GT3 / S2K / Camaro ZL1 / 718 GTS / 991.2 GT3 Last edited by bigdog1250; 10-15-2012 at 03:40 PM.

10-15-2012, 01:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
cooltoy Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Calgary Posts: 13,940 Drives: 14 PW 370Z S/T MT Rep Power: 240204	4 times the price, 4 times the car. DEpointfive0 likes this.

10-15-2012, 01:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 28	I totally agree with your review. The Z checks off 90% of what a Porsche Cayman can deliver, but it's that extra 10% that makes it perfect. Hopefully the next generation Z can bridge that gap closer while retaining the affordability factor. bigdog1250 likes this. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

10-15-2012, 01:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mt Tam I am A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California Posts: 10,709 Drives: 370Z T/S/N 6MT & XKE Rep Power: 3842	Great review, thank you. Which hill did you drive? Did they take you up Tamalpais? I have been procrastinating going to the same dealership. I think it is my time too. bigdog1250 and GaleForce like this. __________________ "Does the carpet match the drapes? NO!!! I don't date bald women." Nissan Motorsports 34R Oil Cooler. Stillen CBE. Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars. KW Variant 3 Coilover System. Stillen Gen3 CAI. Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Stillen Brake Ducts. Carbotech™ XP10/XP8 Pads. Z1 Front Rotors. Z1 Stainless Brake Lines. Two degrees of camber Last edited by Mt Tam I am; 10-15-2012 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Great

10-15-2012, 03:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Inspector71 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lee's Summit Missouri Posts: 337 Drives: 2015 Pearl White Z Rep Power: 15	Forgive my ignorance I thought the Cayman was a hardtop Boxster? Not correct? There is one is my area with a guy more middle aged than me trying to race my litte red Z. Right...

10-15-2012, 02:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
obito Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 94 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 12	you make me wanna go for a Porche instead of a Lotus for my next car!!!!!! However, It's still a long way for me to have that much money to afford a Porche xD PM great review

10-15-2012, 03:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
bvl Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: PA Posts: 362 Drives: MB Roadster (sold) Rep Power: 13	OP: the 911 does not drive close to a Cayman. Sales guy was being a sales guy to get you to try something. The 911 is a great drive and has plenty of fantastic attributes, but from a feel and purist of sports car perspective you owe it to yourself to drive a Cayman. Comparing a new 991 to the outgoing 987 Cayman may not be that fair, but there still are significant differences either way (until the new 981 arrives). I love the Z for what it is: a good value package. I rate it as 75% of a Cayman (which to me is the logical comparison vs. a 911). The Porsche has better steering feel, better rotation, better chassis manners, and is a lighter package. The Z gives you more value per creature comfort and more raw power. Power isn't everything however. - b m4a1mustang likes this.

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