Precisely, and you have no experience driving either thus you can offer no opinion.

Thanks for stopping by the thread and saying hi though :tup:

Haha can we just agree that nicknick is a fierce internet warrior who just lacks automobile smarts and go about our day?
Very excited for tomorrow. Heading back to SD and back into the 911! Will be contributing to this thread every time I go back and forth between cars.
Oh and you guys are right about not soley stats. Heck if we only looked at stats and numbers we would all have 5.0's instead of Z's! (except for nicknick..)

Lots of truth right there (hides from mustang defense force).

If there is one thing Porsche should be known for, it isn't their steering feel (yes even their new electric setup). It's their new PDK transmission. I mean seriously, holy **** it's unreal. You never feel the shifts, you only hear them. Makes me happy that they put the paddles on the wheel itself because shifting mid corner is not a problem at all. Maybe it's because I have dynamic engine mounts as an option, which does help with that. I wish I could drive one without them to see if they actually do help.

Realistically I would pay 50k for a Nismo Z (with touring - I know that's not possible) with a PDK transmission in it. I wish Nissan worked a bit more on their transmission, and valued the importance of it much more. I hope the next gen Z works on this issue, just as much as the hp issue. And important transmission is essential in a car. I know I'm comparing a dual clutch with my traditional manual, but I have had a chance to drive the 7MT and my thoughts remain the same. I have never driven a AT 370Z though. So I can't really comment that accurately..
I found myself just constantly pulling the paddles, switching off between hands, just because each shift just feels so perfect. It's hard to explain, it's just perfect.

However, it is not perfect in normal mode. And to be honest I never keep it in normal mode because everything feels a little sluggish, whereas sport mode tickles my trousers.. Have yet to try sport plus mode.

I have never driven a PDK on the street, but I did race two Boxster/Cayman S and I wasn't that impressed by it. I still prefer the 6 spd, even though I don't think that is a good gearbox either.

Were they the new 981 models? They have vastly changed the PDK systems since the last models.

It was either a 2010, 11 or 2012. I thought the shifts were extremely harsh and it didn't seem to live up to its billing. I was expecting video game type of shift time and power transfer. I mean I only drove a few laps, maybe it is different on the street. Plus all the Porsche motors are pretty loud, it's hard to hear what's going on under the loud exhaust!

Haha I know what you mean. To be honest the flat 6's sound like trucks, especially on startup!
And if you get a chance, you should try out their new PDK system! I have driven a friend's 997.2 (late model 997) with PDK and was certain that I would get the 7MT when it came to purchasing my very first. A test drive with the new system (which has exactly those video game shifts) squashed any and all doubts I had about the PDK.

I wonder if i have offended your ego, as you have a 911 in your garage and are trying to justify it.

Why is it that YOU can not see that many motoring journos have demonstrated that the GTR is measurably superior to the 911 and cheaper. Now as to the FEEL of the cars, yes they are different and these differences are what appeal to different people.
And......no i can not afford either car and have not driven these two new versions of either.

Jeez, seems there are some staunch Porsche defenders on this forum.

Nick is pretty funny....He has never driven either car, but the books tell him which car is better ......

The real world is not a book Nick....Keep posting....Your argument continues to get weaker and weaker...

Remember Nick, YOU don't know anything about what is better....You are just reporting what you read somewhere, not actual experience...

I haven't driven either so I don't know.

I have to agree with this... I do know that in a half mile the GTR will take a 911 turbo, in one mile, the porsche will pick up and start to pass the GTR. The porsche will most likely feel more connected to the road, and be more nimble in RWD. The Porsche will be more refined.
But being the fact that one is RWD and one is AWD makes these cars two different animals thhat have two different missions. There are things the GTR can do the porsche can't and vice-versa, plus there's a 60k difference between the turbo 911 and the GTR.

When you factor in general performance and cost. The GTR is a highly compelling package. I wouldn't sit here and say one is better than the other based on they're mission lies in two different arenas.

But to post in here the 911 is better as a FACT??? And not a personal opinion or preference??? That's pretty bold. These are different classes of automobiles, there's engineering in a porsche that may make it superior to a GTR in some ways. In the realm of PURPOSE. NEITHER CAR SHOULD BE COMPARED IN THAT FASHION. Doing so would be unrealistic and Elitist. (Superiority complex)
I have a friend who only likes AWD. So his 3kGT is superior to my Z in his eyes. I don't argue with him over it because he prefers theAWD sports arena. I prefer RWD. I drive RWD's better than my friend. He can drift AWD. Its all personal preference.

Guys, i am up front and said i have not driven these cars but going purely on what motoring "experts" have concluded. The GTR IS measurably superior to the 911, that is a fact. I do not understand how you guys can discount the opinions of "experts" yet give validity to your own possibly limited opinions.
now that is funny.

Unknown 370Z to me is known for great posts.. He states that to post that to say the 911 is better as a fact is being bold and maybe more opinion or preference...I agree.

Then Nick comes on and says that the GTR is measurably superior and that is a FACT just re enforces my post....It is preference and opinion and not Fact....

Have the GTR's gone out on the circuit and dominated the 911's yet ?? I am not a Porche owner or could care less, but to claim the GTR is better and it is a Fact, is again Bold to say the least.

OMG! Guys just go onto youtube or read any car mag and you will find/see that the GTR is faster, quicker, has more grip, is faster around a circuit, brakes faster etc. This is not speculation but measured time and time again. So in every performance category that can be measured the GTR is better, and that is a fact. Now, as to "feel" that is another story, as i have said before. So before you diehard porsche fans respond go and do a little research.

Additionally, the 911 platform is considered to be a flawed design, due to the engine hanging out behind the rear axle causing all sorts of lift off oversteer issues, although Porsche through various ways has tamed this trait.

now, lets see what interesting responses i get.

When the GTR can beat the 911 on the racing circuit for the title for ONE year, then we can revisit this....Then when they can dominate for several years, then you will be right..

Where are the GTR's at the podium against the 911's, or the Volvo's, or the Audi's ???

A timed lap is not a Road Race....When I see the GTR win at the Leman's series several times, then I will have proof...No proof yet...Only single lap times...Not a race...You Tube ? Haha..Try the Professional Lemans Series...

P.S. The 2010 GTR for Lemans looked GREAT...One bad A$$ looking car...And the regular GTR in Person ? SWEET ride....I am not saying it isn't a really Nice car, but I would like to see it full time at the Leman's Series to see how it does on the course over a long length of time....It may just whip everyone....But I have to see it first...

And what are you comparing ? The twin turbo GTR and the regular 911 ? The top flight GT3 would be something to compare it to...

don't you remember the nurburgring where the GTR beat the 911.
By your logic if a car is not involved in a year long race then it is not as good as a 911, therofore the 458, aventador, veyron, pagani etc are inferior to the 911?

Edit, did not see the remainder of your post. for the price at least here is Australaia, yes comparing GTR to 911 and yes i too would like to see performance cars raced, that way you can get an idea of reliabilty etc.

Actually the GTR smokes the GT3 at the track....You nailed it.

So you are right...But I too would like to see it race a year on the circuit to see how it holds up..

What would I buy ? They are both great...I couldn't say unless I drove them both.. And the reliability is still an issue..

But time will tell....

For the money the GTR is a great car. I just can not stand car manufacturers who charge above and beyond what a car is really worth, the GTR is not one of them.
If i had the money what i probably would buy is the Jag F type used.

Other than the understeer problem, they say the GTR chassis could handle more power..

I am with you on the used thing....I test drove and almost bought a low miles AMG E class for one third the price....Some people buy these type of cars like the Jaguar F and never really drive them, let alone drive them hard...Let them take the new car price hit....Then buy it at 40% to 50% off.


Brand New ? Only if I hit the Lotto. High end cars drop price like a rock....I just worry about the reliability of the GTR...I heard rumor if you put it in Sport mode and with the Traction off, it voids the warranty ? That would suck...But I don't know if that is Internet lies..

that was true with the early models but Nissan has made adjustments, so it is not a problem now.
As to using the power of these cars, you should come to Melbourne Australia and see how bad our police state is, if you 3km/h over the limit they ping you with speed cameras.......revenue raising capital of the world!

Nicknick, as much as I LOVE the GTR, and I really do love them, you sound pretty darn stubborn.

Car and Driver put the 911 (991) over the 2013 GTR:
2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. 2013 Nissan GT-R vs. 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - Comparison Test - Car and Driver

Motor Trend put the 911 (991) over the 2013 GTR:
Picking the 2012 Best Driver's Car! - YouTube

Those are the two biggest car magazines I can think of. Does that mean the 911 is better than the GTR? NO. IT DOES NOT. Damn I feel like I'm talking to a wall. You can say, the GTR is better in 0-60, or the 911 has less NVH, but you cannot credibly say that one car is better than the other. You just sound silly.

Here in California it is Track only...No fun on the streets anymore...

Also,
GTR Black edition starts at 106K
911 Carrera S starts at 97K (although options bring up that number a LOT) (USD)

They're 2 magazines, i have seen/read lots of articles. The 991 is the current 911 and the GTR was introduced during the 997 model span. in ref to your later post, i am talking about Australian "ripoff" prices.

I'm not going to get sucked into a foolish Internet argument. I just ask for you to think for yourself. And cars are not a numbers game. When you get to know them you will understand this. Cheers!

and that is why in my posts i talked about feel being another factor altogether. please read my post thoroughly before assuming.

I wouldnt put a lot of faith in Car and Driver. I have seen some really biased articles in that rag before.

I know and agree CSA. We shouldn't put all whole hearted faith in car magazines. We're not blind sheep!

when the majority of car magazines come to the same conclusion re GTR then to me at least that indicates something right??

As to the blind sheep comment, maybe you put too much faith in car company marketing hype!

No one argued the GTR wasn't faster. Yes it is faster than a 911. But that doesn't mean it's better.

Please stop your pointless argument. I know you love cars and read lots about them, we all do, thus you don't need to regurgitate stats on cars we are all very familiar with.

My goodness nicknick. This isn't a GTR vs 911 thread. You are right. The GTR has been proved by science to be better than the 911. Anyone who buys one does so because of marketing. After test driving both, I decided to go with the scientifically worse car because the GTR was just too fast for me and was just too good. Damn. Not once have I even commented why I didn't chose the GTR because THIS ISN'T A GTR THREAD. (keep in mind other viewers that I love the GTR) Idk why I'm wasting my time on a kid with a miata who knows jack **** about cars besides some numbers, after reading your old posts you're not even a chill dude (by a long shot) so I really do not wish to continue this unrelated topic with you. You win kid!

Now please, if you're not going to stay on topic, just quit your argumentative blabber. They are both great cars lets leave it at that. Stop trying to make a debate out of everything.

If the Porsche feels better to drive to you then its obviously the better car. If the GTR feels better to drive then its obviously the better car.

They are both fantastic cars so why dont we just close this thread. The dead horse has had the crap beaten out of it