Looking very good guys! Any specs on the carbon fiber roll you showed on the picture? Thickness, etc?

Thanks for the awesome updates!

The carbon fiber is 2x2 weave 5.7 oz graphite / black. It has a 3K tow ability and comes in 50" width.

If we get another Z to come by for the build and have enough interest :tup:

subscribing

Keep it up John your work is looking good!

Completely untrue. Once a thermoset polymer is cured, it can not be reheated to bond to other matricies.

Read up on thermoset v. thermoplastic polymers. All structural resins are thermosets.

There are specialized adhesives used to bond cured composite components.

very interesting thread, and great pics. Thank you! subscribed!

The prepreg is partially cured which means that it is in B-Stage. It can be trimmed, pleated and formed using a knife or a pair of scissors. The prepreg handles very easily and because of its tackiness, it will lay tightly into your mold.* You might still have relief cuts or pleats to contend with just like you would with a dry fabric.*

After placing the layers in the mold, the prepreg must be compressed to allow bonding, to remove any trapped air between the layers and to squeeze out any excess resin. Although there will be very little excess, the resin will naturally become thinner as the temperature is raised and there will be resin flow prior to a full cure of the resin.* **

The needed compression can be accomplished using a press but unless the part is perfectly flat, a press is not an option.* Consequently, the part is generally vacuum bagged.* *

With prepreg fabric, there is a benefit in having plenty of time to build your bag and get the part ready for the oven.* You are not fighting the natural pot life of the resin.* However, the more layers you have laid, the more likely that there will be air trapped between the layers.* You should really have perfected your vacuum bagging technique before laying multiple layers of prepreg for a single curing.

A big advantage of prepregs is that after curing and cooling, additional layers can be laid onto the part without scuffing or additional surface preparation.* Again, up to ¼” can be laid at a single time with the same consideration of not trapping air between layers.

After the layup is complete, the vacuum bag is built and sealed, and you are ready to pull vacuum and begin the heat cycle.* There are 3 recommended cure cycles for Fibre Glast prepregs.* All 3 will produce similar properties.

There is an unconventional new prepreg out that can be stored at room temperature and can be layed up in stages. This is not consistent with traditional thermoset resin prepreg that requires handling and storage at sub temperatures.

Yes, everything you posted is correct. (it should be, it was copy/pasted directly from Fiberglast's site).

About Prepregs - Fibre Glast Developments

your plagiarized work starts about 2/3rds down the page.

Yes, a prepreg system (like any other epoxy resin) allows laying up in multiple stages, provided proper debulking, etc as described in the link, but you're original statement that the OP could layup a hood skin, and the underlaying support separately, then simply clamp them together and place them in a autoclave to bond them is preposterous. Clearly you're misinformed.

There is very limited use of thermoplastic matrices used with carbon fiber, and non of them in a laminated structural part.

Again, read up on thermoplastics vs. thermosets. All epoxies (and poly/vinylesters for that matter) are thermoset resins and once cured, can not be melted and recured.

Indeed, the new copy/paste feature on the iphone works rather well. Why would l make my own claims about another corporations products? I was just working on my works cited page, you just beat me to it! I'll cite my other references in the future, right after I go enjoy my cwoffee.

Gents, interesting info, but let's try and keep it civilized (so far so good, but I can see where this is going).

A question to both of you guys knowledgeable in composites, as well as to John from Spawn Aero: When making parts for a car such as this, what are the differences between using prepreg (which I understand is carbon cloth pre-impregnated with resin, but not yet cured) and a dry cloth with resin and vacuum-bagging applied on the mold? And which is Spawn using? I think a lot of people here are interested, but not very knowledgeable, like me, so we'd very much appreciate the information coming from either of you.

Spawn is doing a wet layup, as seen by the roll of dry fabric. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wet layup, 90-95% of the work I do is wet layed & cured under vacuum..

Prepreg has the advantage of consistency, but is not necessarily stronger. Some can be, and at the high end (fighter jets, f1 tubs), everything is made from prepreg for controlled resin distribution and because some of the high temp resin systems used simply aren't available separately.

This really is all a moot argument, as there is absolutely 0 reason to use prepreg for street car parts. Unless people are going to start paying $4k+ for a hood, there simply isn't a demand for it, and the quality difference is negligible.

I don't know what the deal is with Seibon's "dry carbon" parts is (hate that term, noone in the industry uses it). I haven't seen one in person, but since their normal line consists of fiberglass hoods with a carbon overlay, I can't imagine what their "dry carbon" line is like.

It looks like Spawn is on the right track. I'd love to check out some of his work in person.

BTW, anyone can feel free to PM me with any questions. I've been working with composites for over a decade, and have built parts for 100's of race cars, NHRA stuff, formula cars, drift cars, Grand Am cars, you name it.

I'm not sure why you quoted me then. What you copy/pasted didn't really have anything to do with what I said.

Yes, in the future, you shouldn't present someone else's writing as your own.

John can you make us a set of these for us Stillen G3 owners
http://www.the370z.com/attachments/e...-air-vents.jpg

^^ Isn't that in the worng area thought. Shouldn't it be closer to the middle and lower.

The lip or the inlets on top of the bumper? The 2 carbon fiber inlets?

They are talking about the inlets.

Hi Fusz,

Not necessarily. These are actually curved inboard. You don't want openings pointed straight into the Stillen G3 air filters otherwise you run the risk of getting water in your intake when it rains.

Yeah, the inlets. I'm sure one of us Gen 3 owners could get some measurements re: where the filters lie in relation to the bumper itself. Just looking at the pics, the height on the Mine's probably about right. But yeah, there's that whole thing to consider about whether you'd want the holes directly over the filters (probably best on a dry day) which are close to the center, or positioned further out for indirect airflow and avoiding rain.

What would be complicated but ideal (to me anyways) would be to position the inlets about where Mine's ones are, but do a shaped tube from there that goes in and up, then lets the air out on top of the filters in the center. Light rain wouldn't make it through the upwards tubes much, and you could always make little snap-in covers for those occasions where the car has to be driven in harder rain.

Would be perfect to have something maybe not directly in front of the filters, but maybe just to the side of them with a couple of rams (or not) on the inside. Here is where they sit.

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...321024x768.jpg

And finally, excuse me STILLEN for borrowing your pics, but here is a see through.
http://blog.stillen.com/wp-content/g...take_Main2.jpg

They MAY actually already be perfectly positioned to suit us. More to the middle and its right over the filter. I know you are trying to keep the air trapped in that section and to ram it in there guys, but the air needs to flow somewhere to create cold air flow over the filters. Otherwise it fills up with turbulent air and actually defeats the purpose for having the vents on the front as wind wont flow in as easily. Then again it is going through the radiator too...so there is flow and we should try to ram the air into the intakes... discuss?

What about the lip??

There is some flow behind the bumper, so openings like Mine's would work, even if they don't ram the air on top of the filters.

If someone is interested in ramming air into the intake, then ModShack's approach, modified for the Stillen intake, is the easiest/cleanest. Using the openings by the fangs, and a hose to connect those to an air box (a cylinder) that fits right around the filters. In that case, since the route has a large vertical displacement from the bottom to the top of the bumper, very few droplets of water would actually make it to the filter, and those would be caught by the filter element.

Trying to ram air from somewhere like the Mine's openings would require a path that would first travel down or back, before turning around, so that the water would be trapped there through gravity or inertia, respectively. There is room to travel down, but in that case once again ModShack's approach makes more sense. There is little room to travel back, so that's probably out of the question.

My opinion then is that the Mine's openings should be considered but not in the ramming fashion, simply to get fresh air behind the top of the bumper, and therefore into the Stillen intake. One could even optimize it a little by having a simple 90º elbow turned inboard from the opening, but without an extension or hose connecting it to the filters.

My idea regarding the vents in the dual vent discussion post:

http://www.the370z.com/exterior-inte...tml#post105943

Good point, I got way off track, I apologize John! Will continue discussion on the other page.

off track is ok as long as it stays in the grass...you only have problems if you find a wall :driving:

so, where are the updates?? :)

:iagree::iagree:

I honestly was about to post the same thing.

Very interested in seeing what you guys come up with, it would be nice to have all theses products available.

Turns out we got a bad kind of epoxy resin for the CF parts (which was crazy because the company knew we were making exterior cf parts so we needed high endurance resin) The resin wouldnt be able to take over 120F. So they gave us our money back for it and now we are just waiting from another company who is sending us a gal sample of a resin they use for NHRA cars so they say it should be perfect.

Bullitt will be taking home a pretty much stock 370Z and then we will be sending him a

CF hood
CF roof
CF hatch
CF rear bumper valance
CF b pillars
CF front bumper lisence plate back and we think that is it unless im missing something.

But chances are we will get those last 3 things done in time but we will see.

As of product availablity. All of it is ready to order accept the hood n hatch. There will just be a short wait time for the resins.

P.S Our parts will be full carbon fiber. Other companies like Seibon and Extreme Dimensions use one layer of carbon fiber backed with fiberglass. Ours will be full carbon.

The only thing that might not be fll carbon are the tiny pieces like B pillars and such since they are practically weightless to begin with.

ouch, so those pieces you made (roof and front license) are useless? Hope they paid you back for that carbon as well!

so are we going to get a full price list anytime soon? Oh, and what about the lip kits and possible bumpers, any news on those?

Sorry to hear about the resin mixup, that sucks. 120F is nothing, if I had a bumper with resin that melted at 120F it would be dead the first day around here lately :)

Great thread, guys. Thanks for being so forthcoming with your process. I'm anxiously awaiting some installed pics, and I'll be ordering some bits too.

Great Johnny!

Yeah when they told me they have resins that can hold up to 180. I chuckled and said 153 is average in the sun temperature for chicago. Imagine anything south / west. The minimum has got to be at least 200. And thats just for the parts that arent near the engine. Hoods, fenders, etc have to be able to withstand at least 400.

Eh?

MAX CLR-HP A/B performs well at room temperature use and can withstand cyclic exposure to temperatures form -40°C to 112°C with minimal loss of mechanical performance. Check this resin out from ebay, its not too expensive and has good transparent properties.

They suggest baking in an oven at 110 Celsius to promote quicker curing time.

Nick

Well since we know about availability, what about prices? I'm interested in specs as well for the performance oriented pieces (hood and hatch). How much lighter are they than their aluminum counterparts. I'm sure I'll have to add several pounds for primer/paint. Which brings me to my next question, what are the painting procedures for a piece like this? Anything special or can we basically key the epoxy, prime and paint?

Thanks.

CF hood (yet to be priced)
CF roof $650 (your price $500)
CF hatch (yet to be priced)
CF rear bumper valance $500 (Your price $450)
CF b pillars $225 (Your price $200)
CF front bumper lisence plate back $225 (Your price $200)

and we think that is it unless im missing something.


As far as painting the hoods and or CF hatch if you want them painted let us know and we can do CF and send it primed. All the shop would have to do is sand the primer, apply his own primer if he wants or just a sealer coat. Then paint. Our primers are urathane based which is the standard paint system used at most shops. Water based primers can be requested upon order for a small extra fee for those states that require shops to use water based paints.:stirthepot:

sorry if this has been answered since there are so many threads, but have you posted ANY pictures of final products?

Not yet. In the middle of it all we found out the clear epoxy we were using was no good for what we were doing. Like I said before its not us its the company who sold us the wrong product.

We have a few different types of epoxies here that we just got yesterday and today that we will see which one is the best to use.

High temp epoxies ftw! Cheap carbon fiber parts use low temp epoxies so say for example if you left the part out in california sun all week the part would fall appart on you. Thats why we need high temp.

this is good to hear because I got a buddy with a 2005 250z. With a CF hood and its already starting to turn yellow with some cracks on the hood. Cuz no Clear coat:eekdance:.

Very interested in this and cant wait to see the final product!! :ughdance: