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-   -   Spawn Aerodynamics - Bullittes CF build thread. (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/6063-spawn-aerodynamics-bullittes-cf-build-thread.html)

SpawnAeroJohn 06-29-2009 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25 (Post 102695)
Love the front bumper Pepsi holder...hope that makes the production version :)


Along with rear view mirrors that hook up to the back doors of cars for those who like to drive their car with the seat reclined to the max :happydance:

juuuust kidding.

SpawnAeroJohn 06-29-2009 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerxj17 (Post 102685)
do you run your business out of your garage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ (Post 102769)
thanks for clearing that up.

Like I said we want a shop and have every intentions of moving into our own instead of splitting one + working out of the garage. But before we just did not need the space and we were dealing with a cramped environment. You know. Conforming to what is already given.

After a few of these part molds are finished and once we start getting orders we will be forced to move into at least 2000 - 5000 sq ft space because as you can already see. It is becoming very hard to move around in the current place. Tomorrow we are moving some stuff to the paint shop just so we have room to turn around with out elbowing each other in the face.

jmlenz 06-30-2009 01:05 AM

Please do us al la favor and weigh the stock parts (hood, hatch, bumpers, etc) so we have a starting comparison!

I removed the hatch a while back as well and it felt pretty light to me (compared to the steel 350z at least) but never weighed it.

Thanks for all the updates!

LiquidZ 06-30-2009 09:29 AM

Spawn, do you have any newly released drawings of what the final product or products are going to look like?

wstar 06-30-2009 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidZ (Post 103000)
Spawn, do you have any newly released drawings of what the final product or products are going to look like?

I don't see why they would make a drawing, they're going to mold the original pieces, so it's not like it's done in CAD software or anything.

Ok so for this car, the roof is going to be an overlay, so we won't get a roof weight. The front stuff (fenders, hood) are going to be a complete replacement though right?

LiquidZ 06-30-2009 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar (Post 103005)
I don't see why they would make a drawing, they're going to mold the original pieces, so it's not like it's done in CAD software or anything.

Ok so for this car, the roof is going to be an overlay, so we won't get a roof weight. The front stuff (fenders, hood) are going to be a complete replacement though right?


I remember seeing a drawing on the design they were thinking of, but I haven't seen anything newer. I was just wondering if there were newer versions.

bullitt5897 06-30-2009 11:24 AM

We have yet to release the widebody design so you guys will have to wait for that one lol

bullitt5897 06-30-2009 11:24 AM

The Rear is sooo freaking aggressive yet CLEAN!!!

xiven 06-30-2009 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897 (Post 103051)
We have yet to release the widebody design so you guys will have to wait for that one lol

i can't remember if you showed that to me or not. i do remember the front. :)

SpawnAeroJohn 06-30-2009 11:50 AM

The roof is going to be an overlay (roughly 2 - 4 lbs) Very thin and light so it sits super flush.

The hood, fenders, and hatch will be direct swaps.

Then we have a few other overlays and small part replacements that we are holding off as suprises!

SpawnAeroJohn 06-30-2009 05:27 PM

Updates coming tonight!

SpawnAeroJohn 07-01-2009 02:34 PM

Sorry for not updating you guys last night! I was working till 12 trying to stay on schedule. Ill post last nights and tonights update around 8PM central time.

Tomorrow we will also have carbon fiber roofs and front bumper license plate overlays ready to order.

Scribe 07-01-2009 03:07 PM

John,

Something that I think you should take into consideration, after your intial effort here, is reproducing the Nismo front in carbon fiber. You are basically targeting a few small demographics:

1. People that want a light front fascia and don't care if it looks stock.
2. People that have to have everything in carbon fiber (including their significant other if they could).

Nissan has really dropped the ball (and opened a door for someone else) by not offering the Nismo front fascia for sale even in ABS plastic. If you were to get your hands on one for a mould, you could easily produce them in carbon fiber the same as you are here. This would appeal to much broader consumer base, such as:

3. People that think the fangs aren't the greatest.
4. People that like the Nismo front more but Nissan left out in the cold.
5. People that want the proven aero design of the Nismo front.
6. People that want a high quality alternative to stock (basically people that feel compelled to mod).

I hope all this pans out and pays off for you. I just wanted to throw out the idea for consideration/discussion. You may have already thought of it.

Keep up the good work.

SpawnAeroJohn 07-01-2009 03:21 PM

Nismo CF front would be a very good idea. Very very good. That would shed more than %50 of the front bumper weight.

When it comes to a time in a few weeks when we want another Z to come down for more parts then we will GI this idea :)

Togo 07-01-2009 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in.the.dark (Post 103944)
John,

Something that I think you should take into consideration, after your intial effort here, is reproducing the Nismo front in carbon fiber. You are basically targeting a few small demographics:

1. People that want a light front fascia and don't care if it looks stock.
2. People that have to have everything in carbon fiber (including their significant other if they could).

Nissan has really dropped the ball (and opened a door for someone else) by not offering the Nismo front fascia for sale even in ABS plastic. If you were to get your hands on one for a mould, you could easily produce them in carbon fiber the same as you are here. This would appeal to much broader consumer base, such as:

3. People that think the fangs aren't the greatest.
4. People that like the Nismo front more but Nissan left out in the cold.
5. People that want the proven aero design of the Nismo front.
6. People that want a high quality alternative to stock (basically people that feel compelled to mod).

I hope all this pans out and pays off for you. I just wanted to throw out the idea for consideration/discussion. You may have already thought of it.

Keep up the good work.

:iagree: Personally I don't think that is something that I personally would (eventually) be interested in purchasing myself, however the idea is brilliant. Make a NISMO in CF and corner an entire market!

I'm glad you guys are tackling this head on, props to you.

In for the updates

Scribe 07-01-2009 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpawnAeroJohn (Post 103958)
Nismo CF front would be a very good idea. Very very good. That would shed more than %50 of the front bumper weight.

When it comes to a time in a few weeks when we want another Z to come down for more parts then we will GI this idea :)

You make a full Nismo 370Z kit, and I'll buy it.

marcussoori 07-01-2009 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in.the.dark (Post 103944)
John,

Something that I think you should take into consideration, after your intial effort here, is reproducing the Nismo front in carbon fiber. You are basically targeting a few small demographics:

1. People that want a light front fascia and don't care if it looks stock.
2. People that have to have everything in carbon fiber (including their significant other if they could).

Nissan has really dropped the ball (and opened a door for someone else) by not offering the Nismo front fascia for sale even in ABS plastic. If you were to get your hands on one for a mould, you could easily produce them in carbon fiber the same as you are here. This would appeal to much broader consumer base, such as:

3. People that think the fangs aren't the greatest.
4. People that like the Nismo front more but Nissan left out in the cold.
5. People that want the proven aero design of the Nismo front.
6. People that want a high quality alternative to stock (basically people that feel compelled to mod).

I hope all this pans out and pays off for you. I just wanted to throw out the idea for consideration/discussion. You may have already thought of it.

Keep up the good work.


Please also reproduce the Nismo Z edition rear bumper. Carbon fiber is not necessary, just in the same material Nissan uses would be fine. I am assuming that if the Nismo front is not sold (what about replacement parts, will this require a VIN?), the rear bumper won't be sold either...

Thanks...

SpawnAeroJohn 07-01-2009 04:58 PM

If I got a VIN number of a nismo (I might not even need one) I know Nissan would bring us the kit with in the weeks end. Assuming we ordered on the begenning of the week. Like I said this needs its own GI thread and another test fitter to come by. If we found a Nismo owner we would have no need to purchase a kit which would make it cheaper for you guys. Im guessing the Nismo kit costs over $1500.

OOK back on topic! This is the bullitt thread!

RCZ 07-01-2009 06:15 PM

If you make a nismo front bumper replica, just PM me your paypal no questions asked.

CCCLXXZ 07-01-2009 06:41 PM

If I am understanding your statement correctly... you are proposing that if you had a Nismo 370z VIN number, and that you might not even need one...that Nissan could and would ship you all the Nismo replacement panels before the end of this week for under $1500 dollars? Ill tell you what, lets make a deal. Order the kit, make the molds, and Ill buy it off of you for $1000 dollars after your finished with them.

I have been following your thread, and haven't commented on anything yet. I have a few questions that I have been pondering.

What is your solution for storing the molds in your garage to retain proper symmetry and strength without distorting the original mold shape?

Similarly, if you don't have the original parts you are creating... assuming you are making a fiberglass mold, what is your plan if one of the molds break or crack in the future?

How do you control the humidity and temperature level in your workspace to achieve proper curing as per recommended specs consistent with the resin you use and to prevent the carbon fiber fabric to absorb ambient moisture?

I am assuming you have never made a carbon fiber hood before because you have not mentioned making two molds for the hood. One mold provides the exterior contours and the latter the interior contours and structural rigidity. Once both molds are complete the two parts need to be bonded with carbon specific structural adhesive for wet layup, if dry carbon was used you could reintroduce heat and the two pieces would bond together in an autoclave.

What accommodations have you planned to incorporate the hood mounting hardware, for the hinges and hood latches?

I could ask so many more questions.... but I will just continue to watch. My questions are in no form derogatory or demeaning. I am trying to present constructive criticism to address areas where this extreme hobby experiment can go wrong. I hope to buy a few enhancements if all turns out well... I just think a simple dash kit would have been a good place to start and then add one additional product at a time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me as I live very close to you and have created a few carbon pieces for hobby value.

There is a reason why F-1 teams have multi-million dollar budgets, because they work with and use carbon fiber...

And to throw it out and make this my longest post yet, OCC owned a steel manufacturing enterprise before dabbling with motorcycles. And coincidentally those motorcycles were made of 80% steel parts. Never did Paul Sr. design and build a motorcycle in his basement or garage...

Thank you for your time - that is all for now,

Nick

37Z 07-01-2009 07:02 PM

Dry Carbon Molding
 
"One mold provides the exterior contours and the latter the interior contours and structural rigidity. Once both molds are complete the two parts need to be bonded with carbon specific structural adhesive for wet layup, if dry carbon was used you could reintroduce heat and the two pieces would bond together in an autoclave."

Even better, vacuum bagged, pre-preg carbon fiber in a two-piece mold in an autoclave with humidity,temp, and pressure control.

rufio11 07-01-2009 07:30 PM

If you could make a front bumper without the fangs and still have it look stock, Kinda like the Nismo version without the lip, I think that would be welcome with open arms and open wallets.

SpawnAeroJohn 07-01-2009 08:40 PM

What is your solution for storing the molds in your garage to retain proper symmetry and strength without distorting the original mold shape?
Since most of our early molds were small they would be stored on shelves or in storage lockers. Our latest molds have gotten bigger and bigger. Any mold that is practically a simple big shape (hood face, roof panel, etc) has a back brace that we mold into the final layers of the mold which keeps the mold from warping while curing. Once the mold is cured its cured for good and if its kept flat it wont change shapes. We also do not remove any molds until we are sure its fully cured. We don’t quick dry our molds with heat or UV lighting, we just let them sit for at least 48 hrs in room temp. We also use the highest quality resin we can find which has a super low warp or shrinkage rate. Even more so if the mold does not over heat so we do not put on multiple layers at once to prevent that.

Similarly, if you don't have the original parts you are creating... assuming you are making a fiberglass mold, what is your plan if one of the molds break or crack in the future?
We would either buy the part or preferably have a local come down to remold the product. We always would rather create molds of live parts since they are already fitted to the car and have kept shape for some time.

How do you control the humidity and temperature level in your workspace to achieve proper curing as per recommended specs consistent with the resin you use and to prevent the carbon fiber fabric to absorb ambient moisture?
Since most shops do not control humidity only temperature its never a real issue. But we can not control either or so the way we counterattack the "might be problem" is by mixing chemicals to alter the structure of the material yet alter it in a way so it does not change the properties of strength and or shape. We do this by either adding in acetone or other high evaporative substances such as that or other products which if the temperature is over 80 degrees. Those added materials evaporate before anything else gets a chance to. And by that time the parts are already curing. We also change the amount of activator / hardener we put in. If its hotter we put less hardener so it wont affect the shape. If its colder we put more so that the materials don’t separate.

What accommodations have you planned to incorporate the hood mounting hardware, for the hinges and hood latches?
We are still trying to work that out but the best idea so far is to have an outside company create steel plates that will go behind the hardware so that nothing cracks or separates.

I could ask so many more questions.... but I will just continue to watch. My questions are in no form derogatory or demeaning. I am trying to present constructive criticism to address areas where this extreme hobby experiment can go wrong. I hope to buy a few enhancements if all turns out well... I just think a simple dash kit would have been a good place to start and then add one additional product at a time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me as I live very close to you and have created a few carbon pieces for hobby value.

There is a reason why F-1 teams have multi-million dollar budgets, because they work with and use carbon fiber...

And to throw it out and make this my longest post yet, OCC owned a steel manufacturing enterprise before dabbling with motorcycles. And coincidentally those motorcycles were made of 80% steel parts. Never did Paul Sr. design and build a motorcycle in his basement or garage...

And yes I do know that. I also know that its the TV show that got them to where they are today. But I try to personally look past those facts just to boost our confidence. We have never had doubt in ourselves but this just helps. :)

Thank you for your time - that is all for now,

Nick

And we only know you are trying to help. In no way I thought of this as an ill post. Yes right now we don’t have the best environment but it is a place where we can do our work with great concentration, all the surrounding businesses and neighbors are real happy with our presence as well as the local law enforcement as we are doing some jobs for local police officers, and right now it’s the best place for our position. Like I did say in a few weeks to late summer we will be renting out a 5000 sq ft warehouse in Chicago that a friend of mine / fiberglass supplier is offering us at a very great price. So right now its not the are around us or the are that we are in, it’s the techniques we use to counter all of the “what could be problems” which so far has worked well and we have yet to come across a problem.

Also all our carbon fiber is vacuumed to remove excess materials, thin and lighten them down, and remove any air bubbles / moisture that can ruin the part. That is the one technique that really does effect the overall outcome of every product fiberglass and carbon fiber.

I might be contacting you in the future :D

SpawnAeroJohn 07-01-2009 09:01 PM

Here are more pictures!

This is yesterday and today combined.

Here is Manny spreading on the gel coat (most of the pictures have him in it, and no he does not do all of the work ha)
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/SSPX1643.jpg

The gel coat on the front bumper license plate back.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/SSPX1646.jpg

Starting fiberglass layup
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/SSPX1655.jpg

The first 7 coats of fiberglass
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/SSPX1656.jpg

Preping the rear bumper for the mold.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...p/SSPX1662.jpg

And today we pulled the mold for the front bumper (Ill get pics tomorrow) But here is a picture showing we take extra precautions to make sure the panels are not harmed during glassing them. As you can see the bumper is in the same condition as it was prior to laying fiberglass over it.

Tomorrow we will make the first carbon fiber roof, front bumper license back, and a FRP replica of the hood which we will modify for the scoops.

We will also start the fenders, hatch, and the reverse side of the hood for the molds.

10 days to go and allot of work to do :D

nogoodname 07-01-2009 09:05 PM

doing a good job !!

Caravanshaka 07-01-2009 09:50 PM

Honestly, I think the coolest part about this build is that you are walking us through the steps you are taking to build these parts. We don't just see a picture of the final product and order, we literally get to watch you build them so we can see as close to first-hand as we possibly can without helping you, the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product.

I will definitely be interested in some of these parts in the end, especially since my car has a black and white theme :tup:

semtex 07-02-2009 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravanshaka (Post 104402)
Honestly, I think the coolest part about this build is that you are walking us through the steps you are taking to build these parts. We don't just see a picture of the final product and order, we literally get to watch you build them so we can see as close to first-hand as we possibly can without helping you, the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product.

I will definitely be interested in some of these parts in the end, especially since my car has a black and white theme :tup:

I agree. What a refreshing change from the attitude that some companies have. Take SSR, for example. They won't even release offset info because they 'don't want to share their trade secrets with their competitors'. They're a bunch of tossers is what they are. Props to you guys at Spawn Aerodynamics. :tup:

nogoodname 07-02-2009 08:25 AM

^ that's the difference between a private shop and a commercial business shop.

+1 to u spawn

SpawnAeroJohn 07-02-2009 08:25 AM

Awwwwww shucks!!!

LiquidZ 07-02-2009 09:04 AM

Keep up the great work Spawn!

Caravanshaka 07-02-2009 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogoodname007 (Post 104632)
^ that's the difference between a private shop and a commercial business shop.

+1 to u spawn

Agreed, it's been the same with berk and their cat-back as well. getting to see the process along with testing has helped spark more interest, as well as more confidence in the consumer. It's a win-win situation for anyone building a quality product. If your product is a piece of crap though, you don't want to be doing this :roflpuke2:

nogoodname 07-02-2009 09:17 AM

Takes guts to show the process... Nothing to hide.

This reminds of fast food joints. Who knows what happens in the kitchen.

bullitt5897 07-02-2009 09:27 AM

Great points guys! Yea John and I had several conversations on this subject and we both agreed to involve the community as much as possible. Allowing you guys to see the process was a really great idea "thanks John!". John and his shop do GREAT work and I am excited to get my car back with all these parts on it! For sure this will be the First carbon Fiber 370z in the WORLD!!!! John we are making history brother lets keep it up! Spawn Aerodynamics will definitely be a major contender to deal with! Best Prices with exceptional quality!!! JDM manufacturers watch your back because Spawn Aero is hunting you down like Red October!

ssqpolo 07-02-2009 09:39 AM

MOAR PICS!! and i cant wait to start buying some CF crap for my car lol. im obsessed with it. ****. i will send u my car for a long period of time to make more carbon fiber whatever (widebody...different designs, etc). hook it up! bullit got first dibs...my turn! lol. great job tho guys. this is a super cool project

RCZ 07-02-2009 11:50 AM

excellent pics, thanks for sharing with the forum!

jmlenz 07-02-2009 12:17 PM

subscribed!

SpawnAeroJohn 07-02-2009 08:24 PM

Well today started great! We demolded the so far molds and so far 3 of 3 are perfect! We started 4 more today.

Here are some pictures.

Manny next to the new roof mold.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1681.jpg

Me next to the new roof mold. (I always have sunglasses on, the light buggs me sometimes)
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1683.jpg

Getting ready to layup bullittes carbon fiber license plate front.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1695.jpg

Layup.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1696.jpg

Everything even fiberglass is vacuumed for perfection!
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1702.jpg

Preping the rear.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1699.jpg

All items are branded and placed with a serial number for authenticity.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1706.jpg

Starting a new mold.
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/SSPX1713.jpg

Caravanshaka 07-02-2009 08:44 PM

sweet, that last one is one I would be interested in. CF in that area is an eye catcher at shows.

Lookin' good guys, can't wait to see some final products and pricing :tup:

shabarivas 07-02-2009 09:23 PM

Hey spawn - any chance you could make me a diffuser for the back which can cover up that ugly butthole and have it be in FG w/ NO CF :p?

FuszNissan 07-02-2009 09:56 PM

Nice work!


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