Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S
 

Chris Harris reviews the three cars on Drive. I'll reserve my opinion for now :rolleyes:.

Love Chris Harris. While he does hate on the Z a bit, he makes some valid points. However a lot of that can be improved with some basic mods.

Best show on the net right now

Did he just say a used Porche Cayman S is worth around 16-17k?

Where can I pick one up at that price? lol

^ I was thinking the same thing... I'm sure they're much cheaper there.

looks like he's in england. £17k = $27k

I guess you could get the a Cayman with 80k on it for that? Maybe?

Why is he comparing grapes to apples to oranges

My exact thought.

Similar price ranges.

wow he just basically completely bashed the 370Z, i mean i have issues with the car also but this guy is a joke. I understand the fr-s is respectable but the 370Z being quiet" and steering wheel not close enough are weak reasons not to have fun in it like he was saying. I'm sure some of you here can show him how to "push the car"

New FRS starts at 26k
370z starts at 33k
Cayman S LOL 60k

This guy seems like a retarded phaggot. He sounds like he's just jumping on the ft86 bandwagon and making unintelligent criticism against the Z

I just dont see the point in this review comparing a Used 70k miles Cayman probably an older model Z and a BRAND NEW FRS?

Sorry this guy is an idiot, wonder how much Toyota paid him to do this review.

I think people forget that the FR-S was designed specifically for its handling and driving characteristics. It has no straight line speed, and as he said, the interior is meh. The Z is an excellent all around car, but it's not going to drive as crisp around a track as the FR-S. They didn't put every ounce of the design/engineering into its handling. Can't bash him for that, but I do agree he goes a little hard on the car.

You sound like an intelligent individual.

Chris Harris is awesome. You can have a different opinion on something completely subjective and not sound like a twelve year old.

Scooters can be fun but that doesn't make them comparable to my Z. 8/10ths type of car? Maybe he drove it to 11/10ths of his skill level and it scared him. Sooner or later this band wagon will simmer down. I just read the latest Road & Track magazine and they put stickier tires on the FR-S "just to see how it would perform." C'mon, put club tires on the other cars just to see how they would perform too.

Weirdly he hates Miatas

CHRIS HARRIS: The Mazda MX-5 is pants (ducks) blog on Evo Community by Monkey Harris

Huh?

Someone put 285 Hoosier on their FRS and I put 285 RE11 on my Z. Sure it might grip better and handle better, but it didnt quite make up 150HP diference

Speaking of Scooter and great fun, I have a 2009 Honda Metropolitan for sale. Sorry for the shameless plug

Did any one notice it has a sport wing with non-sport wheels? Doesnt make sense. You are missing the bigger brakes and the VLSD or there are different packages available in the UK or there is some video trickery going on and a biased review IMO. The tires on the FRS are about as wide as the 225/45r16 R1r's I am running on my integra. I can drive my integra way harder and is way more stable in the turns but come on man my Z smashes it all around. I can confidently say with way more seat time and loose the fear of crashing a $30k+ vehicle it would pull the same if not better through the same course, and I am just refering to the turns. My 2 dont even compare once it straightens out. No matter how hard I push the teg with the same HP and TQ as the BRZ and all the suspension work I have done to that car the first straight the Z will fly by and be a speck coming out of the next turn....

He is happy about the squirming it has. I guess if that is what makes it fun to drive.... I agree the Z's tranny does feel just how he describes it, but that is from stiffer bushings in the shifter which is called an upgrade on other cars from Energy Suspension.... Gimmie a brake man.

are you friggin kidding me...this is the most biased review i have ever seen, i mean c'mon anybody can see that he just nit picks away at the Z when it comes to doing a review on it...i think the most rediculous comment he made was the whole "engine starts to get wheezy above 5k RPM" lol. last time i checked thats when the Z really starts to get into its powerband, and then all the bashing on the handling of course, personally i have never felt uncomfortable pushing my Z through the corners cause it does exactly what i ask it to do with no fuss. i have to disagree with this "reviewer" on every point cause as far as im concerned i have alot of "fun" as he puts it in my Z more so than i have any other car i've driven and/or test driven. not knockin on the FR-S at all, they are nice cars and im glad to have more RWD options for sports cars, but this guy doesnt seem to know how to push the Z properly. oh and one more thing i forgot, he even rips on the Z for the steering position and the whole "driver focused" thing, when that is what nissans whole goal in the 370Z was for the cabin to be "driver focused"...geez just thinking about some of the comments he made makes him seem more biased every second.

I think Chris Harris is an excellent reviewer. I watch all of his stuff. I agree though - he seems so blindly absorbed by the FR-S hype-train at the moment that he almost comes across as a gloating fanboy in this particular review. He makes some rather large and fundamental criticisms of the FR-S (technically overpriced, "slow", cheap interior, crap engine note, "not for someone who wants performance"), while making fairly trivial complaints on the Z (steering position, rubbery shifter feel) and yet he dresses the review up in a way that makes the FR-S seem incredible and the Z seem like garbage.

Speaking as a professional reviewer myself (I review video games for a living), I admit that it can be easy to get caught up in the moment and overly praise/bash something because you were in the spirit. I've done it. And I think Harris is doing it here. I love my Z - some niggling issues I've had to fix with some simple mods, but I smile every time I hit that gas pedal - and I don't have to be going sideways out of a corner to have fun. I drove an FR-S and it was just too slow for me. I think Harris is reviewing this based on one fact - he likes to slide, and the FR-S tires (combined with a superbly balanced chassis) are low-grip enough to allow for that. And that's pretty much it.

When he says wheezy, i think he literally meant the sound.

The engine sounds coarse in the higher RPMS.

If you drive the cars in reverse order the review would be very different!

somewhat bias

Exactly. I think Toyota slipped him a few bills or a free FR-S or something here. He completed bashed the Z. I'm sure the FR-S is a great car, but its not comparison to the Z and thats what Toyota was after. Its completely biased.

Yes, I agree. If he would have driven the Z and then the FR-S he would have complained about how sluggish the car is and how cheap the interior felt.

:icon18:

I enjoyed the video and he has some valid points, but, in general, I'm not a fan of his "car needs to slide to be fun" philosophy. Hell if I just wanted to slide around, I'd just buy some 90s F body.

What makes the FT-86 (FRS/BRZ) such a fun car is not that it slides, but that once it does, the handling is predictable and progressive.

They've got this same video posted on the FT-86 club forums and a bunch of the posts are the usual "yeah bash the Z" variety, but that's typical and we see the same thing here when talking about the Toyobaru twins :)

He brought a used Cayman which would go for the same price or a little less than the 370Z or FRS new.

I was thinking "wow I wish I knew this when I bought my Z" then I actually tried to find one just now.... yea....

If the prices are the same then he got:
A 6 year old with around 50k miles on it Cayman(265hp) or a 100k mile Cayman S(320hp).
A used '09 370Z
And a new Brz.

A BRZ might be the best choice just for piece of mind but there will be teething problems to work out as with any new model. But if your looking to mod the used Z is the way to go depreciated and out of warranty anyway. Cayman S is just a bad choice unless you have tons of money for upkeep.

I don't think it's biased to recommend the BRZ if your looking at around 28k US to spend.

do a search on autotrader, there are a ton of used caymans available for under $30k with well less than 80k (and he probably meant 80,000 kilometers, which is about 50,000 miles).

nope britain uses miles

Most reviewers are unfriendly to the Z. I'm just used to it by now. When it first came out, they were all saying how great it is and fawning all over SRM. Then there was the C&D brake incident, and ever since then reviewers have ignored or bashed the Z, even though it's a fantastic performance car. I just don't let them bother me anymore.

Chris Harris is arguably the best automotive journalist out there right now. Yes the FR-S has a better driving position than the Z, if you doubt that go sit in one. The wheel is better placed and their seats hug MUCH tighter than ours.

While the overall review seemed harsh on the Z, the points he made were totally valid and have been made over and over across all the auto media companies, such as the course engine note/feeling above 5k rpms. But again, a lot of his gripes can be easily fixed with simple mods... as an all around car the Z is a much better value. Check out my threads reviewing the FR-S vs. the Z.

He's really not bias at all. If actually listen to what he has to say it's good content.

And to those of you who say he doesn't know how to push our car... you are foolish. Check out his other videos. He drifts $100k+ cars on tiny back roads all day. He can push our car no problem, it just does get a little squirmy around the limit (in stock form) and loses some composure, thus the 8/10ths.

I think a lot of reviewers of vehicles judge them without knowing the bloodline or history of all sports cars they review. The 370Z is the most refined Z car ever made, and the engine becoming course after 5K RPM is just apart of the Z bloodline, a personality trait for driver integration, i love it, but i also know the full history of the Z. Chris Harris is cool with me, just think he needs to do more research on the history of Japanese sports cars, just as much as he does for German sports cars and Italian super cars. Also, he should have had a 370z at least with a sport package, to make it more fair, and one with Z1 Motorsports MAF tubes, and a Tanabe exhaust ( I am biased like Chris when it comes to CBE's and my other mods).

I think some of you are taking these reviews a little too serious.

Just be happy with your **** lol....

Think about this, we will never all agree on something. If we did the world would be boring.

The Z probably doesn't have that gocart feel but it has a better interior, more power, and is just as good around the track.

For sub 30's though there isnt a better car than the BRZ period. Just be happy we have options.

I am starting to see FRS/BRZ's everywhere in Los angeles, I however hardly ever see 370Z's, not that it matters.

:iagree:. To be honest, I never get caught up in reviews on sports cars, it's about the feel they give you. Everyone has their own opinions and favorites. I am completely happy with my choice!:happydance:

While I see what you're saying, no engineer ever wants their engine to be course or rough, that's just not a good trait; it has nothing to do with heritage (it has to do with them trying to squeeze out as much power from the block as they can while remaining NA). Lots of reviewers were turned off by this. Personally I don't think it's terrible, but in no way is it on par with a Porsche. Smooth is better in that department.

In regards to knowing history, I'm sure he knows more than you think but Z's but he's only human and can't be an expert on ALL cars from every car marque. So you can't rip him for that.

I could definitely argue with this point. I think the BRZ and FRS are great cars, but I don't think I'd hand them the crown for under 30. Hell, the BRZ has its mate on the dealer lots to contend with, the WRX. And there's also the best selling sports car since the 90's, the Miata.

Think of it this way, the 3.7L VQ makes more power at 5500RPM than the BRZ. If you shift at 5500RPM, no oil temp issues, no overheated brakes, no coarse engine, you will still be faster :tiphat:

Apparently I do not savor the drift enough. My Z corrects with counter steering too quickly. Did I hear this right?