Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S

my2004Z · 08-16-2012, 12:24 AM

Scooters can be fun but that doesn't make them comparable to my Z. 8/10ths type of car? Maybe he drove it to 11/10ths of his skill level and it scared him. Sooner or later this band wagon will simmer down. I just read the latest Road & Track magazine and they put stickier tires on the FR-S "just to see how it would perform." C'mon, put club tires on the other cars just to see how they would perform too.

Jordo! · 08-16-2012, 12:28 AM

Weirdly he hates Miatas

CHRIS HARRIS: The Mazda MX-5 is pants (ducks) blog on Evo Community by Monkey Harris

Huh?

cossie1600 · 08-16-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my2004Z

Scooters can be fun but that doesn't make them comparable to my Z. 8/10ths type of car? Maybe he drove it to 11/10ths of his skill level and it scared him. Sooner or later this band wagon will simmer down. I just read the latest Road & Track magazine and they put stickier tires on the FR-S "just to see how it would perform." C'mon, put club tires on the other cars just to see how they would perform too.

Someone put 285 Hoosier on their FRS and I put 285 RE11 on my Z. Sure it might grip better and handle better, but it didnt quite make up 150HP diference

Speaking of Scooter and great fun, I have a 2009 Honda Metropolitan for sale. Sorry for the shameless plug

Japanjay · 08-16-2012, 02:15 AM

Did any one notice it has a sport wing with non-sport wheels? Doesnt make sense. You are missing the bigger brakes and the VLSD or there are different packages available in the UK or there is some video trickery going on and a biased review IMO. The tires on the FRS are about as wide as the 225/45r16 R1r's I am running on my integra. I can drive my integra way harder and is way more stable in the turns but come on man my Z smashes it all around. I can confidently say with way more seat time and loose the fear of crashing a $30k+ vehicle it would pull the same if not better through the same course, and I am just refering to the turns. My 2 dont even compare once it straightens out. No matter how hard I push the teg with the same HP and TQ as the BRZ and all the suspension work I have done to that car the first straight the Z will fly by and be a speck coming out of the next turn....

He is happy about the squirming it has. I guess if that is what makes it fun to drive.... I agree the Z's tranny does feel just how he describes it, but that is from stiffer bushings in the shifter which is called an upgrade on other cars from Energy Suspension.... Gimmie a brake man.

Z_ealot · 08-16-2012, 03:01 AM

are you friggin kidding me...this is the most biased review i have ever seen, i mean c'mon anybody can see that he just nit picks away at the Z when it comes to doing a review on it...i think the most rediculous comment he made was the whole "engine starts to get wheezy above 5k RPM" lol. last time i checked thats when the Z really starts to get into its powerband, and then all the bashing on the handling of course, personally i have never felt uncomfortable pushing my Z through the corners cause it does exactly what i ask it to do with no fuss. i have to disagree with this "reviewer" on every point cause as far as im concerned i have alot of "fun" as he puts it in my Z more so than i have any other car i've driven and/or test driven. not knockin on the FR-S at all, they are nice cars and im glad to have more RWD options for sports cars, but this guy doesnt seem to know how to push the Z properly. oh and one more thing i forgot, he even rips on the Z for the steering position and the whole "driver focused" thing, when that is what nissans whole goal in the 370Z was for the cabin to be "driver focused"...geez just thinking about some of the comments he made makes him seem more biased every second.

Super Tanooki · 08-16-2012, 04:35 AM

I think Chris Harris is an excellent reviewer. I watch all of his stuff. I agree though - he seems so blindly absorbed by the FR-S hype-train at the moment that he almost comes across as a gloating fanboy in this particular review. He makes some rather large and fundamental criticisms of the FR-S (technically overpriced, "slow", cheap interior, crap engine note, "not for someone who wants performance"), while making fairly trivial complaints on the Z (steering position, rubbery shifter feel) and yet he dresses the review up in a way that makes the FR-S seem incredible and the Z seem like garbage.

Speaking as a professional reviewer myself (I review video games for a living), I admit that it can be easy to get caught up in the moment and overly praise/bash something because you were in the spirit. I've done it. And I think Harris is doing it here. I love my Z - some niggling issues I've had to fix with some simple mods, but I smile every time I hit that gas pedal - and I don't have to be going sideways out of a corner to have fun. I drove an FR-S and it was just too slow for me. I think Harris is reviewing this based on one fact - he likes to slide, and the FR-S tires (combined with a superbly balanced chassis) are low-grip enough to allow for that. And that's pretty much it.

FairladyZ · 08-16-2012, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

are you friggin kidding me...this is the most biased review i have ever seen, i mean c'mon anybody can see that he just nit picks away at the Z when it comes to doing a review on it...i think the most rediculous comment he made was the whole "engine starts to get wheezy above 5k RPM" lol. last time i checked thats when the Z really starts to get into its powerband, and then all the bashing on the handling of course, personally i have never felt uncomfortable pushing my Z through the corners cause it does exactly what i ask it to do with no fuss. i have to disagree with this "reviewer" on every point cause as far as im concerned i have alot of "fun" as he puts it in my Z more so than i have any other car i've driven and/or test driven. not knockin on the FR-S at all, they are nice cars and im glad to have more RWD options for sports cars, but this guy doesnt seem to know how to push the Z properly. oh and one more thing i forgot, he even rips on the Z for the steering position and the whole "driver focused" thing, when that is what nissans whole goal in the 370Z was for the cabin to be "driver focused"...geez just thinking about some of the comments he made makes him seem more biased every second.

When he says wheezy, i think he literally meant the sound.

The engine sounds coarse in the higher RPMS.

Kingbaby · 08-16-2012, 06:33 AM

If you drive the cars in reverse order the review would be very different!

somewhat bias

Footloose301 · 08-16-2012, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Tanooki

I think Chris Harris is an excellent reviewer. I watch all of his stuff. I agree though - he seems so blindly absorbed by the FR-S hype-train at the moment that he almost comes across as a gloating fanboy in this particular review. He makes some rather large and fundamental criticisms of the FR-S (technically overpriced, "slow", cheap interior, crap engine note, "not for someone who wants performance"), while making fairly trivial complaints on the Z (steering position, rubbery shifter feel) and yet he dresses the review up in a way that makes the FR-S seem incredible and the Z seem like garbage.

Speaking as a professional reviewer myself (I review video games for a living), I admit that it can be easy to get caught up in the moment and overly praise/bash something because you were in the spirit. I've done it. And I think Harris is doing it here. I love my Z - some niggling issues I've had to fix with some simple mods, but I smile every time I hit that gas pedal - and I don't have to be going sideways out of a corner to have fun. I drove an FR-S

Exactly. I think Toyota slipped him a few bills or a free FR-S or something here. He completed bashed the Z. I'm sure the FR-S is a great car, but its not comparison to the Z and thats what Toyota was after. Its completely biased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingbaby

If you drive the cars in reverse order the review would be very different!

somewhat bias

Yes, I agree. If he would have driven the Z and then the FR-S he would have complained about how sluggish the car is and how cheap the interior felt.

onzedge · 08-16-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35_FTMFW

Why is he comparing grapes to apples to oranges

Zaggeron · 08-16-2012, 07:54 AM

I enjoyed the video and he has some valid points, but, in general, I'm not a fan of his "car needs to slide to be fun" philosophy. Hell if I just wanted to slide around, I'd just buy some 90s F body.

What makes the FT-86 (FRS/BRZ) such a fun car is not that it slides, but that once it does, the handling is predictable and progressive.

They've got this same video posted on the FT-86 club forums and a bunch of the posts are the usual "yeah bash the Z" variety, but that's typical and we see the same thing here when talking about the Toyobaru twins

gbrettin · 08-16-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35_FTMFW

New FRS starts at 26k
370z starts at 33k
Cayman S LOL 60k

He brought a used Cayman which would go for the same price or a little less than the 370Z or FRS new.

Gauge · 08-16-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enkei2k

Did he just say a used Porche Cayman S is worth around 16-17k?

Where can I pick one up at that price? lol

I was thinking "wow I wish I knew this when I bought my Z" then I actually tried to find one just now.... yea....

2011 Nismo#91 · 08-16-2012, 09:44 AM

If the prices are the same then he got:
A 6 year old with around 50k miles on it Cayman(265hp) or a 100k mile Cayman S(320hp).
A used '09 370Z
And a new Brz.

A BRZ might be the best choice just for piece of mind but there will be teething problems to work out as with any new model. But if your looking to mod the used Z is the way to go depreciated and out of warranty anyway. Cayman S is just a bad choice unless you have tons of money for upkeep.

I don't think it's biased to recommend the BRZ if your looking at around 28k US to spend.

Drex · 08-16-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0rM

I guess you could get the a Cayman with 80k on it for that? Maybe?

do a search on autotrader, there are a ton of used caymans available for under $30k with well less than 80k (and he probably meant 80,000 kilometers, which is about 50,000 miles).

08-16-2012, 12:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	Weirdly he hates Miatas CHRIS HARRIS: The Mazda MX-5 is pants (ducks) blog on Evo Community by Monkey Harris Huh? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

08-16-2012, 02:15 AM	#19 (permalink)
Japanjay Track Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Puyallup Posts: 856 Drives: 09 Nissan 370z MB M6 Rep Power: 14	Did any one notice it has a sport wing with non-sport wheels? Doesnt make sense. You are missing the bigger brakes and the VLSD or there are different packages available in the UK or there is some video trickery going on and a biased review IMO. The tires on the FRS are about as wide as the 225/45r16 R1r's I am running on my integra. I can drive my integra way harder and is way more stable in the turns but come on man my Z smashes it all around. I can confidently say with way more seat time and loose the fear of crashing a $30k+ vehicle it would pull the same if not better through the same course, and I am just refering to the turns. My 2 dont even compare once it straightens out. No matter how hard I push the teg with the same HP and TQ as the BRZ and all the suspension work I have done to that car the first straight the Z will fly by and be a speck coming out of the next turn.... He is happy about the squirming it has. I guess if that is what makes it fun to drive.... I agree the Z's tranny does feel just how he describes it, but that is from stiffer bushings in the shifter which is called an upgrade on other cars from Energy Suspension.... Gimmie a brake man. Last edited by Japanjay; 08-16-2012 at 02:28 AM.

08-16-2012, 03:01 AM	#20 (permalink)
Z_ealot A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,044 Drives: 09 370Z Touring/Sprt Rep Power: 10090	are you friggin kidding me...this is the most biased review i have ever seen, i mean c'mon anybody can see that he just nit picks away at the Z when it comes to doing a review on it...i think the most rediculous comment he made was the whole "engine starts to get wheezy above 5k RPM" lol. last time i checked thats when the Z really starts to get into its powerband, and then all the bashing on the handling of course, personally i have never felt uncomfortable pushing my Z through the corners cause it does exactly what i ask it to do with no fuss. i have to disagree with this "reviewer" on every point cause as far as im concerned i have alot of "fun" as he puts it in my Z more so than i have any other car i've driven and/or test driven. not knockin on the FR-S at all, they are nice cars and im glad to have more RWD options for sports cars, but this guy doesnt seem to know how to push the Z properly. oh and one more thing i forgot, he even rips on the Z for the steering position and the whole "driver focused" thing, when that is what nissans whole goal in the 370Z was for the cabin to be "driver focused"...geez just thinking about some of the comments he made makes him seem more biased every second. Last edited by Z_ealot; 08-16-2012 at 03:22 AM.

08-16-2012, 04:35 AM	#21 (permalink)
Super Tanooki Base Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 217 Drives: 370Z MT Base/Spt Red Rep Power: 14	I think Chris Harris is an excellent reviewer. I watch all of his stuff. I agree though - he seems so blindly absorbed by the FR-S hype-train at the moment that he almost comes across as a gloating fanboy in this particular review. He makes some rather large and fundamental criticisms of the FR-S (technically overpriced, "slow", cheap interior, crap engine note, "not for someone who wants performance"), while making fairly trivial complaints on the Z (steering position, rubbery shifter feel) and yet he dresses the review up in a way that makes the FR-S seem incredible and the Z seem like garbage. Speaking as a professional reviewer myself (I review video games for a living), I admit that it can be easy to get caught up in the moment and overly praise/bash something because you were in the spirit. I've done it. And I think Harris is doing it here. I love my Z - some niggling issues I've had to fix with some simple mods, but I smile every time I hit that gas pedal - and I don't have to be going sideways out of a corner to have fun. I drove an FR-S and it was just too slow for me. I think Harris is reviewing this based on one fact - he likes to slide, and the FR-S tires (combined with a superbly balanced chassis) are low-grip enough to allow for that. And that's pretty much it. Last edited by Super Tanooki; 08-16-2012 at 04:37 AM.

08-16-2012, 07:54 AM	#26 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	I enjoyed the video and he has some valid points, but, in general, I'm not a fan of his "car needs to slide to be fun" philosophy. Hell if I just wanted to slide around, I'd just buy some 90s F body. What makes the FT-86 (FRS/BRZ) such a fun car is not that it slides, but that once it does, the handling is predictable and progressive. They've got this same video posted on the FT-86 club forums and a bunch of the posts are the usual "yeah bash the Z" variety, but that's typical and we see the same thing here when talking about the Toyobaru twins __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

08-16-2012, 12:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
my2004Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 285 Drives: 09' 370Z w/Sport 7AT Rep Power: 37	Scooters can be fun but that doesn't make them comparable to my Z. 8/10ths type of car? Maybe he drove it to 11/10ths of his skill level and it scared him. Sooner or later this band wagon will simmer down. I just read the latest Road & Track magazine and they put stickier tires on the FR-S "just to see how it would perform." C'mon, put club tires on the other cars just to see how they would perform too.

08-16-2012, 09:44 AM	#29 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,379 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 33858	If the prices are the same then he got: A 6 year old with around 50k miles on it Cayman(265hp) or a 100k mile Cayman S(320hp). A used '09 370Z And a new Brz. A BRZ might be the best choice just for piece of mind but there will be teething problems to work out as with any new model. But if your looking to mod the used Z is the way to go depreciated and out of warranty anyway. Cayman S is just a bad choice unless you have tons of money for upkeep. I don't think it's biased to recommend the BRZ if your looking at around 28k US to spend.

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