Which car would you pick?

Red__Zed

I always laugh when I see comments like this. You are like one of those wine experts who can "really tell" the difference in quality between that $5000 bottle of wine and the $100,000 bottle. Except I switched the labels

I won't deny that the rear end of the Mustang is prone to waft a bit at speed, but it is largely due to the underdamping. Honestly, anyone who claims they can feel the limitations of the SRA with the stock dampers is full of ****. There's no way you have such a discriminating *** that the subtle lateral movement is evident amongst the mud generated by the travesty of underdamping that is the rear of the car. You call out SRA because you are trained to, like when you are told your wine should have the scent of bananas, even though it doesn't


The reason that every set of objective reviewers that review the two cars back-to-back decides that the Mustang has a more settled rear end in corners is because IT DOES. This is confirmed subjectively and objectively by a host of reviews and measurements. Anyone with an internet warrior's handbook can call out SRA and think they've won, but if you take a deeper look, the ridiculously high rear rate and extreme toe change under compression gives the 370Z a looser backside than a gay hooker (OK, maybe not, but it is prone to coming unglued like a cheap Chinese iPhone) Can't drive with an objective backside? Hook the car up to anything that measures dynamic toe and let me know what you find. I found this quote from a very wise man:



But of course, let's take the approach that Ford had to pay for that finish. Had to sneak in to get their spot, despite laying the hottest lap time. Had Ford and Mitsu played fair, I bet the 370Z would be sitting on top the podium. Seems logical




[Somewhat in the defense of conspiracy theorist, I personally think C&D moved the Mustang & 370Z back in the rankings simply to give the appearance of being lap-time agnostic like they claimed...basically, they overcompensated to "prove" lap times didn't matter. But that is just my crazy theory]

Davey

Easy there, buddy... You don't sound like you're laughing to me.

Maybe before you went all keyboard commando because you were butthurt I said something negative about your glorious Mustang, you should have take a deep breath, relaxed, and read what I wrote objectively.

I said it handles well, but you can certainly tell it's a solid rear axle... And you can. Or at least, since I learned to drive in heavier cars with live axles and drove them for years, and recall what they felt like, the Mustang brings back faint memories of 1970's GM handling that weren't all that welcome, which I, perhaps incorrectly, attribute to the SRA. But whatever the reason, the handling is far from flawless.

It does float a bit, it does take some time to "set" into a corner, and it does feel a little odd when changing directions quickly or over mid-corner bumps. Is it the SRA? Is it the inadequate stock damping? I really don't care, I just found it less than ideal, and overall it just didn't feel as great to me as I thought the magazines have implied.

And I said that I feel that C&D glossed over the shortcomings of the suspension and car in this review, and made a joke that Ford probably paid them to. Then I said it's a really great handling car for what it is. I mean, regardless of whether those shortcomings are that horrid mess of underdamped whatever you said, or the SRA, they made it sound like it is without flaws, and it certainly is not.

As far as the lap time, well, it's putting down almost 100 HP over anything else in the game so, hey, that's just terrific, who would have expected that.

Have a terrific day arguing about magazine numbers and chassis dynos, I'll be driving my Z.

Red__Zed

I'm sorry, I know sarcasm doesn't translate well through the internet, but I thought the "come unglued like a cheap Chinese iPhone" comment would have given it away. Especially to someone so discerning.

Davey

Sure, I got your sarcasm, what makes you think I didn't? I guess dismissing someone's entire argument because they failed to comprehend your point could be interpreted as failing to interpret sarcasm, especially by someone so open-minded as yourself.

I understand now that even though I've driven cars with live axles vs. cars with IRS and think the Mustang feels like a live axle, it really doesn't, even though it has one, and I just think that because my wine smells like bananas.

This is all making perfect sense now.

Red__Zed

I'm sorry the C&D guys don't agree with you. It seems to have upset you a bit. I guess you can't win them all.

Turns out, my car still handles fantastically regardless what some dude on the internet thinks. And more importantly, since you are apparently out driving your Z, I refuse to continue this discussion in the interest of safety.

Davey

The Car & Driver guys can't even agree with themselves, so it doesn't really upset me too much one way or the other what they say at this point about anything. I mean, the first line of my post was ripping on them for awarding the "best handling car" to the car with the most electronic driver assist nannies, and my post was full of laughing emoticons, such as and in case you failed to notice that.

Maybe you should take a step back from that "Another Z fanboy bashing the Mustang" podium ask yourself why I'm upset that the Mustang doesn't seem to me to handle as well as the magazines say it does in practice, on the street.

As does mine.


No, no... I lied. I won't be doing that until later. But it's nice of you to...



Wait a minute...


I thought you were'n't going to continue this discussion! Well I guess we both lied.

No, I don't think I really can articulate what it is. It just "feels like" a SRA to me. I suppose it's the connection between the left & right wheels when hitting a bump with one wheel and not the other that is apparent, but I supposed you'll just say something about banana wine or dampers or snapping axles so does it matter? I felt it. Even if it was imaginary... Which I don't believe it was for a second... Does it matter to me? Not in the slightest. I buy and pay for a car to enjoy driving it, if I don't, then, why have it, for whatever reason?

The SRA wasn't the only thing I didn't like about the Mustang, anyway. Sure, a few thousand dollars worth of suspension mods could have taken care of some of it, maybe even most of it, and I probably could have lived with the rest of it, but I realized that I liked the Z just as it was, better than the Mustang as it was, and I'd rather buy a car and leave it "as it was."

In the end it doesn't matter what you think or what Car & Driver thinks, the guy asked for opinions and I gave mine. I've driven the Z and the Mustang pretty extensively on the roads I drive on every day, and I'm a much better judge of what I enjoy driving and what "handles better" to me on those roads. You can disagree all you want but there's really no point in changing my mind that the Mustang is just far less enjoyable to drive in stock form than the 370Z.

If you want to talk about track performance, take a look at the Z's numbers without the straightaways vs. the Mustang GT in that test. I can't find the PDF anymore, but I recall they were pretty much tied... So I think it really comes down to if more straight-line acceleration is more important to you and/or which car you think is more fun to drive.

Red__Zed

Well, sounds like you've got the car for you, which I never debated. Everyone has different wants/needs, and there are certainly a number of plusses to both cars.


It sounds like your stance and reasons have changed quite a bit since your original post. No argument here on most of what is in the above post.


Thank whoever has been lending you a Mustang for letting you drive it, and have a good day

Red__Zed

I'm honestly curious whether you can articulate what you feel?

Is is the lateral movement? If so, it takes less than the cost of an oil cooler to resolve.

Is it L/R communication? Because you'll snap the axle before you notice that, and everybody that claims to notice it is smelling bananas in their wine.


So many people get caught up on these things that they forget that the major advantage of an IRS isn't inherent to the design. It is the adjustability...and it requires a rather well-sorted IRS to even notice these things. I'm jealous of the camber curves for the Z's multilink...they're insane. You don't have to worry about dialing in unreasonable rear camber at all, because it is there on demand. On the other hand, the toe curve is horrendous, because they tried far too hard to correct the 350Z's corner exit flutter.

Of course, the unsprung weight on the mustang is a bitch, but that's another discussion entirely.