Seriously?

LakeShow · 05-08-2012, 02:50 AM

Well said OP.

Zoren 370 · 05-08-2012, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

I have been lurking here for quite a while, but only recently decided to join for lots of reasons. I promised myself I wouldn't do this, but I can't help it. There is a disproportionate level of wretching and moaning on this forum. You would think most of you guys hate your cars. It's too loud! Guess what sports cars are LOUD. It doesn't make the right kind of noise! Gimme a break. It sounds mechanical like an engine should, and when I downshift and accelerate, my Z sounds downright angry. I love it!.

The brakes aren't any good. Really, I feel like I can rip a hole in time with my brakes. So what if some bozo from MotorTrend caused the brakes to fail by doing repeated 100-0 stops. I watched Jeremy on Top Gear set the ceramic brakes of an exotic sports car on fire the other day. Any brakes can be made to fail if one pushes them beyond their limits.

The car over heats and needs an oil cooler. I live in the humid, hot East Coast and I have never had my car go into limp mode. BTW guys, your car is supposed to run between 180 and 220 degrees even 230 or 240 is fine. My car was broken in according to factory guidelines and it has never burned oil.

I have never had fuel starve. I don't drive slow, and I have the speeding tickets to prove it ( That's a topic for another thread) but I don't drive like an anal cavity either.

My car isn't as fast as this car, or as fast as that car. When the Z came out it beat the Porsche Cayman S around Willow springs in a direct head to head comparison by Road and Track (Google it) So Porsche came out with the Cayman R in order to put down a faster time than the Z, but they cut weight in that car by taking out unnecesary items like door handles and AC, and then charge extra for no door handles.

The fact is the Z is loaded with edgy technology and engineering. How about appreciating some of what you got for a very reasonable price, and stop nitpicking the car to death.

Okay I know this is the internet, and this post isn't going to do a blankety blank thing to to change much of anything, but I had to get this off my chest.

I could not agree any less!

shadoquad · 05-08-2012, 07:44 AM

jazz, the facts of your car are that if you drive it at the bleeding edge, or in excessive heat, the oil will heat to 260 degrees and go into limp mode. MD is not the hottest part of the country. I know, I'm here, too. The oil overheating issue can be fixed with a $500 oil cooler.

And the other fact is that if you heat up your brakes, the stock braking fluid can't handle it and you will experience brake failure. That can be done at the track, but I first experienced it last year at the end of an 11 hour road trip. I pressed the pedal and nothing happened. Had to stop the car using the clutch. This can be fixed with about 60-80 dollars worth of better braking fluid.

Fuel starve is a well known track issue and will probably only occur if one is pushing the car to its handling limits on a sweeping right hand turn. This has not been adequately fixed yet to my knowledge.

All that said, I appreciate the car for what it is. I love it, I've enjoyed every day with it. We have to discuss its faults, so that other owners can know what to expect. You might not want to track the car, so you may never find these faults, but there are plenty of people who want to take the car to a race track, and they deserve to know about its performance limits before they invest money in an HPDE and have it occur at the track.

It's the advantage of having a discussion forum.

Only a blind fanboy would pretend any car has zero issues. Again, I love the Z, but it has faults, just like any other car.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-08-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

jazz, the facts of your car are that if you drive it at the bleeding edge, or in excessive heat, the oil will heat to 260 degrees and go into limp mode. MD is not the hottest part of the country. I know, I'm here, too. The oil overheating issue can be fixed with a $500 oil cooler.

And the other fact is that if you heat up your brakes, the stock braking fluid can't handle it and you will experience brake failure. That can be done at the track, but I first experienced it last year at the end of an 11 hour road trip. I pressed the pedal and nothing happened. Had to stop the car using the clutch. This can be fixed with about 60-80 dollars worth of better braking fluid.

Fuel starve is a well known track issue and will probably only occur if one is pushing the car to its handling limits on a sweeping right hand turn. This has not been adequately fixed yet to my knowledge.

All that said, I appreciate the car for what it is. I love it, I've enjoyed every day with it. We have to discuss its faults, so that other owners can know what to expect. You might not want to track the car, so you may never find these faults, but there are plenty of people who want to take the car to a race track, and they deserve to know about its performance limits before they invest money in an HPDE and have it occur at the track.

It's the advantage of having a discussion forum.

Only a blind fanboy would pretend any car has zero issues. Again, I love the Z, but it has faults, just like any other car.

I couldn't not have said it any better myself.

twinturbonet · 05-08-2012, 07:50 AM

...unsubscribe.

shadoquad · 05-08-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinturbonet

...unsubscribe.

I'm sorry. I have this flaw... I'm an honest person.

Red__Zed · 05-08-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I'm sorry. I have this flaw... I'm an honest person.

If you weren't so even-keeled and logical, you would have friends.

shadoquad · 05-08-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you weren't so even-keeled and logical, you would have friends.

What would you know of being logical to the point where it offends fanboys?

Red__Zed · 05-08-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

What would you know of being logical to the point where it offends fanboys?

All I know is:

On the Subaru forum I am a Z fanboy
One the Z forum I am mustang fanboy
On the mustang forum I am an s2000 fanboy
On the s2k forum I am a wrx fanboy
On every forum but the bimmer forum I am a BMW fanboy...

But most importantly, everywhere I go, I am a shado fanboy.

m4a1mustang · 05-08-2012, 08:18 AM

On the Britney forum I'm a Gaga fan boy. Sorry, but I was born this way.

Sub'd.

Spikuh · 05-08-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

The brakes aren't any good. Really, I feel like I can rip a hole in time with my brakes. So what if some bozo from MotorTrend caused the brakes to fail by doing repeated 100-0 stops. I watched Jeremy on Top Gear set the ceramic brakes of an exotic sports car on fire the other day. Any brakes can be made to fail if one pushes them beyond their limits.

I do not recall many/any complaints about the breaks being bad, just that they fail very quickly when in comes to taking the vehicle to a track. Even then, simple changes have been pointed out that basically alleviates this problem.

Can you point to some specific assertions where people are saying the brakes are categorically bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

The car over heats and needs an oil cooler. I live in the humid, hot East Coast and I have never had my car go into limp mode. BTW guys, your car is supposed to run between 180 and 220 degrees even 230 or 240 is fine. My car was broken in according to factory guidelines and it has never burned oil.

Above 210*, oil temps start having adverse effects on this engine. It begins losing power and my gut tells me some fuel efficiency as well. Continuing to increase oil temps will only amplify the problem. Over the past couple weeks, my engine temps have crept northward of 220* which does not sit well with me. I typically baby my car, but even with my driving style, I still get oil temp spikes up to ~240*. I will be looking into getting an oil cooler put on my car in the coming weeks to alleviate this problem. While an oil cooler may not be a necessity, it will help with peace of mind.

Also, if oil temps are truly not a problem, why do the newer Z's have them then? [EDIT]I left out a not, so went back and fixed it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

I have never had fuel starve. I don't drive slow, and I have the speeding tickets to prove it ( That's a topic for another thread) but I don't drive like an anal cavity either.

Driving fast does not cause the fuel starvation...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

My car isn't as fast as this car, or as fast as that car. When the Z came out it beat the Porsche Cayman S around Willow springs in a direct head to head comparison by Road and Track (Google it) So Porsche came out with the Cayman R in order to put down a faster time than the Z, but they cut weight in that car by taking out unnecesary items like door handles and AC, and then charge extra for no door handles.

It faster than some, slower than others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

The fact is the Z is loaded with edgy technology and engineering. How about appreciating some of what you got for a very reasonable price, and stop nitpicking the car to death.

How do you know they don't appreciate all these things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz-Z

Okay I know this is the internet, and this post isn't going to do a blankety blank thing to to change much of anything, but I had to get this off my chest.

/rant

cossie1600 · 05-08-2012, 10:55 AM

Modern motor oil can survive way more than 240F. They are running warmer and warmer for emission and fuel economy reasons. Of course as the temperature goes up, it does deteriorate quicker. I am with the OP that it is in your head on this one. Also if you look at the ECU fuel settings, it doesn't pull timing from oil temp. It does it only if your engine is so hot that it soaks the air flow meter's temperature sensor, I highly doubt oil temp at 240F is enough to soak your engine by that much unless you are sitting still

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

Above 210*, oil temps start having adverse effects on this engine. It begins losing power and my gut tells me some fuel efficiency as well. Continuing to increase oil temps will only amplify the problem. Over the past couple weeks, my engine temps have crept northward of 220* which does not sit well with me. I typically baby my car, but even with my driving style, I still get oil temp spikes up to ~240*. I will be looking into getting an oil cooler put on my car in the coming weeks to alleviate this problem. While an oil cooler may be a necessity, it will help with peace of mind.
/rant

Spikuh · 05-08-2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Modern motor oil can survive way more than 240F. They are running warmer and warmer for emission and fuel economy reasons. Of course as the temperature goes up, it does deteriorate quicker. I am with the OP that it is in your head on this one. Also if you look at the ECU fuel settings, it doesn't pull timing from oil temp. It does it only if your engine is so hot that it soaks the air flow meter's temperature sensor, I highly doubt oil temp at 240F is enough to soak your engine by that much unless you are sitting still

I don't think it is pulling timing based on oil temps. I agree with that, but the car still feels and reacts very differently at 190* and 220* for whatever reason. I think it has something to do with the fact that the VVEL system is operated through the use of the oil. When Modshack did his oil cooler write-up back in 2009, he seemed to allude to this when summing up the research he did.

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ttsa-pics.html

I don't think Modshack linked backed to the actual research items he found but they may be in that thread somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

So... who else got a hard on looking at the OPs avatar?

She stares into my soul...

cossie1600 · 05-08-2012, 11:58 AM

You have a point and you might well be right, but I am not certain if the difference is as big as people seem to think. I have done laps at 200F/220F/240F and 260F. My datalogger shows no noticeable difference in acceleration between any of the laps with corner exit at the same speed. The difference between them is so small that I am not sure if it does anything on the road. A few HP, I would buy in, but the car isn't going from 330HP to 230HP.

I mean I wish I didn't have to spend $700 on a new oil cooler, but I think Nissan would take care of most of the complains by putting in a oil pressure gauge instead of temperature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

I don't think it is pulling timing based on oil temps. I agree with that, but the car still feels and reacts very differently at 190* and 220* for whatever reason. I think it has something to do with the fact that the VVEL system is operated through the use of the oil. When Modshack did his oil cooler write-up back in 2009, he seemed to allude to this when summing up the research he did.

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ttsa-pics.html

I don't Modshack linked backed to the actual research items he found but they may be in that thread somewhere.

She stares into my soul...

Spikuh · 05-08-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

You have a point and you might well be right, but I am not certain if the difference is as big as people seem to think. I have done laps at 200F/220F/240F and 260F. My datalogger shows no noticeable difference in acceleration between any of the laps with corner exit at the same speed. The difference between them is so small that I am not sure if it does anything on the road. A few HP, I would buy in, but the car isn't going from 330HP to 230HP.

I mean I wish I didn't have to spend $700 on a new oil cooler, but I think Nissan would take care of most of the complains by putting in a oil pressure gauge instead of temperature.

You are probably right swapping the oil temp guage for an oil pressure gauge.

I think the temp difference is more pronounced down low because you have less power available down there. Like 6th gear at 2k RPM's where you would only have maybe 200hp available instead of the full 332hp. I definitely agree it is not losing some 100hp due to oil temp though. We would all be driving lemons then.

As far as the $700 oil cooler, I think I am going to Modshack's route and just build my own except go ahead and get stainless lines and use a 34 row unit instead of the 24 he used.

05-08-2012, 02:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
LakeShow A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: L.I., NY Posts: 5,307 Drives: Everything Rep Power: 27	Well said OP. __________________ \|2013 Audi S4\|Ibis White/Black\|S-Tronic P+\| \|2013 370z\|PearlWhite/Persimmon\|Touring/Sport/Nav\|F.I. CBE 18" CF\| \|Sold\|2011 370z\|Gun Metallic\|Touring/Sport/Nav\|

05-08-2012, 07:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3888	jazz, the facts of your car are that if you drive it at the bleeding edge, or in excessive heat, the oil will heat to 260 degrees and go into limp mode. MD is not the hottest part of the country. I know, I'm here, too. The oil overheating issue can be fixed with a $500 oil cooler. And the other fact is that if you heat up your brakes, the stock braking fluid can't handle it and you will experience brake failure. That can be done at the track, but I first experienced it last year at the end of an 11 hour road trip. I pressed the pedal and nothing happened. Had to stop the car using the clutch. This can be fixed with about 60-80 dollars worth of better braking fluid. Fuel starve is a well known track issue and will probably only occur if one is pushing the car to its handling limits on a sweeping right hand turn. This has not been adequately fixed yet to my knowledge. All that said, I appreciate the car for what it is. I love it, I've enjoyed every day with it. We have to discuss its faults, so that other owners can know what to expect. You might not want to track the car, so you may never find these faults, but there are plenty of people who want to take the car to a race track, and they deserve to know about its performance limits before they invest money in an HPDE and have it occur at the track. It's the advantage of having a discussion forum. Only a blind fanboy would pretend any car has zero issues. Again, I love the Z, but it has faults, just like any other car. Last edited by shadoquad; 05-08-2012 at 08:10 AM.

05-08-2012, 07:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
twinturbonet Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Miami, FL Age: 43 Posts: 335 Drives: 11' Z #024 - SFZCC Rep Power: 15	...unsubscribe. __________________

05-08-2012, 08:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6964	On the Britney forum I'm a Gaga fan boy. Sorry, but I was born this way. Sub'd. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!