Staggered or square setup?

Red__Zed · 07-08-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

No zero toe saves your tires. Too much toe was what I was talking about, some people (especially auto-x folk) run aggressive toe to improve steering response and initial turn-in. Even with zero toe my car turns in like a beast, I've let quite a few people drive it and they all make the same comment. Even with all the camber I still tend to kill the outside edge of the tire long before the rest is worn out.

Gotcha.

I run 0 toe up front as well, wanting to go positive though.

Red__Zed · 07-08-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

No zero toe saves your tires. Too much toe was what I was talking about, some people (especially auto-x folk) run aggressive toe to improve steering response and initial turn-in. Even with zero toe my car turns in like a beast, I've let quite a few people drive it and they all make the same comment. Even with all the camber I still tend to kill the outside edge of the tire long before the rest is worn out.

Gotcha.

I run 0 toe up front as well, wanting to go positive though.

0 toe should turn in better than the aggressive (negative) toe settings though...or are you referring to aggressive positive settings?

m4a1mustang · 07-08-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Gotcha.

I run 0 toe up front as well, wanting to go positive though.

0 toe should turn in better than the aggressive (negative) toe settings though...or are you referring to aggressive positive settings?

Yeah, zero toe should turn-in better than negative toe ( / \ ). Positive toe ( \ / ) will give you better turn in but don't be surprised if the car feels darty at speed.

ChrisSlicks · 07-08-2011, 12:36 PM

Well aggressive in either direction will kill tires.

Negative toe (toe-in) up front is used to reduce understeer and improve steering feel. The Z doesn't really need it. Just a hair of rear toe-in to keep the car stable.

AWD cars and FWD cars usually run a crap load of toe-in with a bit of rear toe-out to get the car to rotate more easily. Front toe-out serves no useful purpose that I'm aware of (on our cars), although because things can change under compression it might help for mid-corner front grip for example.

m4a1mustang · 07-08-2011, 12:40 PM

I don't have to worry about rear anything.

cossie1600 · 07-08-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Well aggressive in either direction will kill tires.

Negative toe (toe-in) up front is used to reduce understeer and improve steering feel. The Z doesn't really need it. Just a hair of rear toe-in to keep the car stable.

AWD cars and FWD cars usually run a crap load of toe-in with a bit of rear toe-out to get the car to rotate more easily. Front toe-out serves no useful purpose that I'm aware of (on our cars), although because things can change under compression it might help for mid-corner front grip for example.

toe in is positive number, you are right about everything else. if you look at the factory specs on rear toe, i believe the range is all positive numbers

lazywolfe · 07-08-2011, 03:42 PM

Camel toe really kills the tires.

....uh...

ChrisSlicks · 07-08-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

toe in is positive number, you are right about everything else. if you look at the factory specs on rear toe, i believe the range is all positive numbers

Yep you're right, I'm always getting my negative's and positive's messed up. Fortunately I never make that mistake when doing electrical

OMGWTFBBQ · 07-08-2011, 05:15 PM

Might be a dumb question, but for the people running a square setup, are any of you guys running spacers in the rear to keep the track width ratio from front to rear the same as stock? Or would that be counterproductive in reducing understeer?

Mike · 07-09-2011, 07:58 PM

I run 15mm rear spacers to push the wheels out a little.

Front
-3 camber
0 toe

Rear
-2.5 camber
.1 toe

b1adesofcha0s · 07-09-2011, 08:09 PM

What set-up do you guys think would be best for a DD Z that may be going to a track eventually? I have the base 18" wheels and am eventually going with 245's front and maybe 275's in the rear (currently at stock 225F/245R). Need to get my alignment fixed soon so this would be the perfect time to do it. Thanks

cossie1600 · 07-09-2011, 09:03 PM

If you have to wait more than a year before you do a track day, most likely your tires will be worn out by then....

b1adesofcha0s · 07-09-2011, 09:10 PM

Yeah but they're not track tires anyway, just all season. Doubt I will be doing some tracking anytime soon, but I do plan on it eventually. Till then it will be just spirited driving on some curvy roads and maybe AutoX at the most.

Mike · 07-09-2011, 09:19 PM

factory spec alignment is best for you blades.

ChrisSlicks · 07-09-2011, 09:50 PM

It would be nice to push the front camber just a little for a more aggressive street performance (around -1.2) but sadly there is no way to do it without replacement upper control arms. High speed auto-x is great if you can find it locally, helps you learn what the car will do at the limit and makes you more prepared for the track when you get there.

07-08-2011, 12:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	Well aggressive in either direction will kill tires. Negative toe (toe-in) up front is used to reduce understeer and improve steering feel. The Z doesn't really need it. Just a hair of rear toe-in to keep the car stable. AWD cars and FWD cars usually run a crap load of toe-in with a bit of rear toe-out to get the car to rotate more easily. Front toe-out serves no useful purpose that I'm aware of (on our cars), although because things can change under compression it might help for mid-corner front grip for example. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms Last edited by ChrisSlicks; 07-08-2011 at 12:38 PM.

07-08-2011, 12:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	I don't have to worry about rear anything. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

07-09-2011, 07:58 PM	#25 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2187	I run 15mm rear spacers to push the wheels out a little. Front -3 camber 0 toe Rear -2.5 camber .1 toe __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

07-09-2011, 08:09 PM	#26 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	What set-up do you guys think would be best for a DD Z that may be going to a track eventually? I have the base 18" wheels and am eventually going with 245's front and maybe 275's in the rear (currently at stock 225F/245R). Need to get my alignment fixed soon so this would be the perfect time to do it. Thanks __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

07-09-2011, 09:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	Yeah but they're not track tires anyway, just all season. Doubt I will be doing some tracking anytime soon, but I do plan on it eventually. Till then it will be just spirited driving on some curvy roads and maybe AutoX at the most. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

07-08-2011, 03:42 PM	#22 (permalink)
lazywolfe Base Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MD Posts: 66 Drives: 2011 370z SR M6 Rep Power: 15	Camel toe really kills the tires. ....uh...

07-08-2011, 05:15 PM	#24 (permalink)
OMGWTFBBQ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: the OC Posts: 1,886 Drives: 08 SGM IS350 Rep Power: 4550	Might be a dumb question, but for the people running a square setup, are any of you guys running spacers in the rear to keep the track width ratio from front to rear the same as stock? Or would that be counterproductive in reducing understeer?

07-09-2011, 09:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 31	If you have to wait more than a year before you do a track day, most likely your tires will be worn out by then....

07-09-2011, 09:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2187	factory spec alignment is best for you blades. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

07-09-2011, 09:50 PM	#30 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	It would be nice to push the front camber just a little for a more aggressive street performance (around -1.2) but sadly there is no way to do it without replacement upper control arms. High speed auto-x is great if you can find it locally, helps you learn what the car will do at the limit and makes you more prepared for the track when you get there. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

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