Nissan Ester Oil

WhiskeyHotel · 02-04-2010, 01:31 PM

Agreed - without actual field data, it simply comes down to personal preference. But it's fun to watch the fireworks.

IDZRVIT · 02-04-2010, 03:01 PM

The only flaw with a UOA is that the oil may not be the cause of high metal concentrations. So changing your oil will not fix the problem causing the wear such as an imbalance in the rotaing assembly. A long time ago, I did this type of oil analysis in the navy labs for our destroyers. When an abnormally high concentration of a particular metal was detected, say Pb (lead), a vibration analysis may be recommended on the component the oil sample was taken from. However, not once was it recommended to change the brand of oil but rather just change the oil and perform the trouble shooting e.g vibration analysis. So, be warned that changing to a different brand of oil most likely will not fix the problem. You will need to diagnose the cause and make the repair.

FricFrac · 02-04-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

The only flaw with a UOA is that the oil may not be the cause of high metal concentrations. So changing your oil will not fix the problem causing the wear such as an imbalance in the rotaing assembly. A long time ago, I did this type of oil analysis in the navy labs for our destroyers. When an abnormally high concentration of a particular metal was detected, say Pb (lead), a vibration analysis may be recommended on the component the oil sample was taken from. However, not once was it recommended to change the brand of oil but rather just change the oil and perform the trouble shooting e.g vibration analysis. So, be warned that changing to a different brand of oil most likely will not fix the problem. You will need to diagnose the cause and make the repair.

.... but usually its testing for microbes in the fuel ;P You know when we get some skanky fuel in a foreign port - never know what you're gonna pick up overseas

IDZRVIT · 02-05-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

.... but usually its testing for microbes in the fuel ;P You know when we get some skanky fuel in a foreign port - never know what you're gonna pick up overseas

Ahh yes, those pesky MBG's in the JP-5!

Auston · 02-13-2010, 05:01 PM

I just now got my oil changed with Pennzoil 5W30 (10,750 mile maintenance).
Afterwords on the ride back I couldn't tell that my oil had been changed at all
(car drove just as if I didn't get an oil change).

With my 7,500 mile maintenance I did get Nissan Ester Engine Oil with my oil
change (as with my 3750 mile maintenance). I *was* surprised that I could
tell the difference after the oil change. The felt renewed and ran much more
silky smooth when accelerating and shifting.

Based on this, I'll probably spring for the extra $60 to get the Nissan Ester
Engine Oil.

NIZMOZ · 02-13-2010, 07:59 PM

Going from the stock break in oil to Ester you will always feel a difference, then going from Ester to another Synthetic, you don't.

370Zsteve · 02-13-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Going from the stock break in oil to Ester you will always feel a difference, then going from Ester to another Synthetic, you don't.

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

kannibul · 02-13-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

But the stock break-in oil is clarified butter unless you can provide documentation to the contrary.

Point is, don't declare something is something unless you have proof FIRST, not second.

370Zsteve · 02-14-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

But the stock break-in oil is clarified butter unless you can provide documentation to the contrary.

Point is, don't declare something is something unless you have proof FIRST, not second.

That was exactly my point.

semtex · 02-14-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Nissan created the oil for this engine. I for one am 100% positive that they use the oil they created for the engine as the factory fill.

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

blackflag · 02-14-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads

But companies that spec for synthetic fill it with synthetic. Do you have a specific example?

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine?

Wasn't the ester oil introduced after the engine already launched? That's why it's a TSB. Unless I'm wrong on that?

semtex · 02-14-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackflag

But companies that spec for synthetic fill it with synthetic. Do you have a specific example?

Wasn't the ester oil introduced after the engine already launched? That's why it's a TSB. Unless I'm wrong on that?

I don't understand your first question. Specific example of what? As to your second question, I don't know when the ester oil was introduced. To be clear, it's entirely possible that they're using ester oil for factory-fill. I just don't think we have 100% conclusive evidence one way or the other yet is all. And if we have to guess, I personally would lean towards guessing that they're not. But maybe I'm just more cynical than the rest of you.

kannibul · 02-14-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

Nissan likes to cover ALL the bases with their TSB's and service manuals. By specifying the Nissan oil, they get a consistent test base...if it fails to fix the problem, in their eyes, they can rule out oil.

Makes sense from a consistency for diagnostics standpoint, more=so than from a requirement for use as the TSB may suggest to some.

370Zsteve · 02-16-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either.

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response.

semtex · 02-16-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either.

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response.

Well, it's looking more and more like you might be right about them using it for factory-fill. I'm just waiting on final confirmation. Will keep you posted.

02-04-2010, 03:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 29	The only flaw with a UOA is that the oil may not be the cause of high metal concentrations. So changing your oil will not fix the problem causing the wear such as an imbalance in the rotaing assembly. A long time ago, I did this type of oil analysis in the navy labs for our destroyers. When an abnormally high concentration of a particular metal was detected, say Pb (lead), a vibration analysis may be recommended on the component the oil sample was taken from. However, not once was it recommended to change the brand of oil but rather just change the oil and perform the trouble shooting e.g vibration analysis. So, be warned that changing to a different brand of oil most likely will not fix the problem. You will need to diagnose the cause and make the repair. __________________ "America.... still builds rockets!" Vette: 355 cid, 400 rwhp '13 CTS-V Coupe: 6.2L LSA, 556HP

02-13-2010, 07:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 492	Going from the stock break in oil to Ester you will always feel a difference, then going from Ester to another Synthetic, you don't. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

02-04-2010, 01:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
WhiskeyHotel Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 530 Drives: 2015 GT-R PW Premium Rep Power: 18	Agreed - without actual field data, it simply comes down to personal preference. But it's fun to watch the fireworks.

02-13-2010, 05:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Auston Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 764 Drives: 2009 Z34 T+S RAE Rep Power: 18	I just now got my oil changed with Pennzoil 5W30 (10,750 mile maintenance). Afterwords on the ride back I couldn't tell that my oil had been changed at all (car drove just as if I didn't get an oil change). With my 7,500 mile maintenance I did get Nissan Ester Engine Oil with my oil change (as with my 3750 mile maintenance). I was surprised that I could tell the difference after the oil change. The felt renewed and ran much more silky smooth when accelerating and shifting. Based on this, I'll probably spring for the extra $60 to get the Nissan Ester Engine Oil.