Has VDC made you a worse Z driver?

nismolife · 08-12-2010, 03:31 PM

If you are like me, you enjoy driving your Z pretty hard at times, often with the traction control disabled. Last weekend I was driving my Nismo with VTC off. There had been one of those misty first rains after a period of hot weather. My Nismo came around on me so fast all I could do was go two-feet-in and wait for the crunch!

I'm 40 and have been driving since I was 16. I had a 07 350z & other sports cars prior to this and rode streetbikes for years in all weather. I've tracked my Z and driven numerous other high powered cars. This was my *first* accident. Fortunately it was a low speed bounce over the curb backwards, which did in the wheel, tie rod & who knows what else under there. Passenger side airbags went off also (though I was alone in the car).

So I was thinking - what the hell happened?

I came to the realization that lately I've been just mashing the pedal and letting the Nizzy's very capable traction control save me. I never intended to lose my "feel" for the edge of traction & feedback from the car, but this change in my driving style has just happened slowly over time.

So has VTC allowed me to become a worse sports car driver?

This isn't a question about safety - obviously had I left VTC on, my car wouldn't be in the shop right now and I wouldn't have endangered myself and others, but is the safety of the throttle-dump experience worth the trade-off in driving experience and actual driving skill?

m4a1mustang · 08-12-2010, 03:34 PM

More likely a lapse in judgement than getting too used to driving with VDC... it happens.

kenchan · 08-12-2010, 03:42 PM

im not sure how i can test driving skill on the streets other than for smooth shifting so the VDC is usually turned on unless i know im going to be driving in this hump/dip area where the VDC over-reacts and slows the car down.

Cmike2780 · 08-12-2010, 04:12 PM

On the contrary, I think its made me a better driver. It lets you know where the limits are and it leaves it up to you to decide when you want to push it. Imagine how many more wrecked Z's there would be without the VDC. It was much easier to drive with driving aids when cars were heavy or underpowered. Most people can't handle a 200hp car properly without driving aids, let alone one with 332hp or more.

Nitex · 08-12-2010, 04:16 PM

I turn it off first thing when i get in my car.

6spd · 08-12-2010, 04:17 PM

im not trying to be some street racer by any stretch of the imagination, so giving up the safety of the vdc just to say i can drive with it off doesnt make much sense to me. if i ever attempt real race driving, like starting auto-x and working my way up, then yes vdc will come off. but on city streets... nah, im a better driver when im not wrecking my car.

Cmike2780 · 08-12-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

im not trying to be some street racer by any stretch of the imagination, so giving up the safety of the vdc just to say i can drive with it off doesnt make much sense to me. if i ever attempt real race driving, like starting auto-x and working my way up, then yes vdc will come off. but on city streets... nah, im a better driver when im not wrecking my car.

wrecked car=worst driver!

shabarivas · 08-12-2010, 05:03 PM

It all depends....

If this is your first sports car which you have never gotten sideways - yes VDC will let you safely explore how much and how fast you can push your car to its limits...

If this is just another sports car and you drive a lot and feel the need to be connected to the car 100% of the time - VDC is going to make you worse... i mean it does hold you back... simple as that.

Let me also say this - just because you have VDC - does not mean your car will never crash - you can most def kick the tail out w/ VDC on with some creative gas mashing

shabarivas · 08-12-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

wrecked car=worst driver!

I bet you anything some of the worlds best drivers have walked away from some bad crashes... It teaches you to respect your car. And if you respect your car - it will respect you back. Plain and simple.

6spd · 08-12-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

I bet you anything some of the worlds best drivers have walked away from some bad crashes... It teaches you to respect your car. And if you respect your car - it will respect you back. Plain and simple.

agreed. but accidents happen, as evident by the overwhelming number of wrecked Z threads!

nismolife · 08-12-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

It all depends....

If this is your first sports car which you have never gotten sideways - yes VDC will let you safely explore how much and how fast you can push your car to its limits...

If this is just another sports car and you drive a lot and feel the need to be connected to the car 100% of the time - VDC is going to make you worse... i mean it does hold you back... simple as that.

Let me also say this - just because you have VDC - does not mean your car will never crash - you can most def kick the tail out w/ VDC on with some creative gas mashing

I think my problem is switching back and forth. Its easy to get used to being saved by the VDC - until the day you've got it switched off. I find that the Z can be quite stable with the rear stepping out. In this particular case, I should have recognized that the road conditions were very slick, and considered turning VDC on or just driving with extra care.

6spd · 08-12-2010, 06:20 PM

yeah, if you are going to switch between on and off, you have to be mindful of whats around you at all times. not paranoid, just mindful.

Cjanik · 08-12-2010, 06:48 PM

yes I have had close calls with VDC off due to me not being used to it.

I have a tendency to turn off VDC in an open road and come around a corner mashing the gas , to remember the power it has, kind of keeps me in check. my scariest moments were flooring it in second and loosing traction in that gear.

resopaton · 08-12-2010, 07:17 PM

I really haven't found much of a need to turn mine off until lately. It could be because the roads are finally dry here in the NW or I'm just getting more comfortable behind the wheel of a Z. I do find one thing highly annoying with the VDC on. That is, when starting from a complete stop while making a left or right hand turn, or starting off strait away while on an uneven paved surface sometimes the VDC kicks on. It's just an odd feeling when the car loses all acceleration for a bit.

I guess it serves as a reminder of how easy it can be to break the rear loose, just as a couple of you others mentioned. I do recall reading 3 or 4 threads from earlier this year about crashed Z's. I do believe they all had their VDC turned off...bet they wished they would have never turned it off now.

Pharmacist · 08-12-2010, 07:31 PM

i wonder why o why when i saw the question about vdc i had a gut feeling that someone turned vdc off and then crashed his car?

08-12-2010, 03:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
nismolife Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Everett Posts: 24 Drives: 09 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 15	Has VDC made you a worse Z driver? If you are like me, you enjoy driving your Z pretty hard at times, often with the traction control disabled. Last weekend I was driving my Nismo with VTC off. There had been one of those misty first rains after a period of hot weather. My Nismo came around on me so fast all I could do was go two-feet-in and wait for the crunch! I'm 40 and have been driving since I was 16. I had a 07 350z & other sports cars prior to this and rode streetbikes for years in all weather. I've tracked my Z and driven numerous other high powered cars. This was my first accident. Fortunately it was a low speed bounce over the curb backwards, which did in the wheel, tie rod & who knows what else under there. Passenger side airbags went off also (though I was alone in the car). So I was thinking - what the hell happened? I came to the realization that lately I've been just mashing the pedal and letting the Nizzy's very capable traction control save me. I never intended to lose my "feel" for the edge of traction & feedback from the car, but this change in my driving style has just happened slowly over time. So has VTC allowed me to become a worse sports car driver? This isn't a question about safety - obviously had I left VTC on, my car wouldn't be in the shop right now and I wouldn't have endangered myself and others, but is the safety of the throttle-dump experience worth the trade-off in driving experience and actual driving skill?

08-12-2010, 03:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	More likely a lapse in judgement than getting too used to driving with VDC... it happens. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

08-12-2010, 04:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 28	On the contrary, I think its made me a better driver. It lets you know where the limits are and it leaves it up to you to decide when you want to push it. Imagine how many more wrecked Z's there would be without the VDC. It was much easier to drive with driving aids when cars were heavy or underpowered. Most people can't handle a 200hp car properly without driving aids, let alone one with 332hp or more. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

08-12-2010, 04:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nitex Track Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 848 Drives: '13 GTI Stage 2 UNI Rep Power: 16	I turn it off first thing when i get in my car. __________________ 2013 Drivers ED GTI \| Stage 2 Unitronic

08-12-2010, 04:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 24	im not trying to be some street racer by any stretch of the imagination, so giving up the safety of the vdc just to say i can drive with it off doesnt make much sense to me. if i ever attempt real race driving, like starting auto-x and working my way up, then yes vdc will come off. but on city streets... nah, im a better driver when im not wrecking my car. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

08-12-2010, 03:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141520	im not sure how i can test driving skill on the streets other than for smooth shifting so the VDC is usually turned on unless i know im going to be driving in this hump/dip area where the VDC over-reacts and slows the car down.

08-12-2010, 05:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	It all depends.... If this is your first sports car which you have never gotten sideways - yes VDC will let you safely explore how much and how fast you can push your car to its limits... If this is just another sports car and you drive a lot and feel the need to be connected to the car 100% of the time - VDC is going to make you worse... i mean it does hold you back... simple as that. Let me also say this - just because you have VDC - does not mean your car will never crash - you can most def kick the tail out w/ VDC on with some creative gas mashing

08-12-2010, 06:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 24	yeah, if you are going to switch between on and off, you have to be mindful of whats around you at all times. not paranoid, just mindful. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

08-12-2010, 06:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cjanik Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 578 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 17	yes I have had close calls with VDC off due to me not being used to it. I have a tendency to turn off VDC in an open road and come around a corner mashing the gas , to remember the power it has, kind of keeps me in check. my scariest moments were flooring it in second and loosing traction in that gear.

08-12-2010, 07:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
resopaton Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Joplin, MO Posts: 84 Drives: 13 PW Nismo Rep Power: 15	I really haven't found much of a need to turn mine off until lately. It could be because the roads are finally dry here in the NW or I'm just getting more comfortable behind the wheel of a Z. I do find one thing highly annoying with the VDC on. That is, when starting from a complete stop while making a left or right hand turn, or starting off strait away while on an uneven paved surface sometimes the VDC kicks on. It's just an odd feeling when the car loses all acceleration for a bit. I guess it serves as a reminder of how easy it can be to break the rear loose, just as a couple of you others mentioned. I do recall reading 3 or 4 threads from earlier this year about crashed Z's. I do believe they all had their VDC turned off...bet they wished they would have never turned it off now.

08-12-2010, 07:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pharmacist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,249 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 18	i wonder why o why when i saw the question about vdc i had a gut feeling that someone turned vdc off and then crashed his car? __________________ 2009 370z Sport Touring/Nismo shift Knob/Z1 motorsports 34 row oil cooler

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