Dealer Scam? Need advise.

KillerBee370 · 07-15-2010, 01:53 PM

I think this is a simple situation that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich should clear up nicely.

Now that I think about it, when I put 10,000 cash down on mine, I can't for the life of me remember if I got a reciept at the time. That would suuuuck if they called foul on that amount..lol!

chrisdc · 07-15-2010, 01:58 PM

My last F&I Manager forgot to collect a down payment once. I stress "once" because he was let go within the next couple of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

But that's the difference with a cash transaction. The burden is on the consumer to hold on to their receipt as proof of purchase.

Actually, there is no such burden on a consumer to keep receipts for purchases. Taking delivery of an item where there is no further documentation that additional moneys are owed -- like a promissory note -- is prima facia evidence that the item was paid for in full.

The dealer may be able to mitagate that prima facia evidence by showing circumstances that make it likely the money wasn't paid -- F&I guy specifically remembers he didn't get the money, the books for that night show $1000 short, evidence of a timely phone call or correspondence by the F&I guy or general manager to the effect that "sorry to bother you, but in the rush we forgot to get your deposit".

But, we don't know if the OP's dealer has any of that evidence. According the the OP he got a cold call from the collection department at the dealership months later saying he owed the money.

shadoquad · 07-15-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Actually, there is no such burden on a consumer to keep receipts for purchases. Taking delivery of an item where there is no further documentation that additional moneys are owed -- like a promissory note -- is prima facia evidence that the item was paid for in full.

The dealer may be able to mitagate that prima facia evidence by showing circumstances that make it likely the money wasn't paid -- F&I guy specifically remembers he didn't get the money, the books for that night show $1000 short, evidence of a timely phone call or correspondence by the F&I guy or general manager to the effect that "sorry to bother you, but in the rush we forgot to get your deposit".

But, we don't know if the OP's dealer has any of that evidence. According the the OP he got a cold call from the collection department at the dealership months later saying he owed the money.

hmm. ok. But paying with most other methods would have made this more cut and dried. A check or credit card involves a third party who can verify or refute the claim from their records. Makes it a lot easier to prove one way or another.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:02 PM

^^You are right. We have no idea really what is going on.

It will really come down to how they handle there policies and procedures on taking deposits.

If I have receipts for 99.99999% of my transactions, because that is our policy and we are missing one deposit and don't have a receipt for said deposit, and neither does the customer, who do you think will win???

I honestly wonder how this is going to play out.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

hmm. ok. But paying with most other methods would have made this more cut and dried. A check or credit card involves a third party who can verify or refute the claim from their records. Makes it a lot easier to prove one way or another.

Quite right.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:05 PM

It's going to come down to the dealers practice on handling deposits in my mind. If the dealer had receipts for only half their deposits his done in court.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 02:24 PM

I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. The dealer sounds fishy in this case. Someone just bought a 30k automobile, you forgot to get his deposit. And furthermore you forget that you forgot his deposit (or just couldn't be bothered to call him up) and it is assigned to a credit collector for the dealership months later...

dudafunk · 07-15-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

That maybe right, but the reverse is true as well -- the contract is not proof he owes the money. The OP has the car, title (finance company has that actually), registered in his name, etc. I think the burden of proof would be for the dealership to show he owes the money.

The contract is not proof he owes the money sure. But the contract is promise that the customer will pay - so the customer is liable, and in this thread's case, with no proof he paid.

PS: I recorded my entire deal on the cellphone as backup. p h a c k stealerships.

dudafunk · 07-15-2010, 02:32 PM

LOL... new twist.. I doubt that the OP is making it up, but hey its 3.30pm and the boss is out.

Subscribe thread.

Matt · 07-15-2010, 02:32 PM

When I bought my car, I put 7k (or 9k) down. I had a large amount of it in cash, and the rest I put on my debit card. The told me that I had 14 days to give the whole amount, if I needed. The contract shows the down payment, the receipt shows the proof it's paid.

I got 2 receipts, one for the cash...one for the debit.

I hope it doesn't end up being an expensive lesson, but you really should always get a receipt. It become even more important when it's cash, as there is no transaction recorded anywhere else.

dudafunk · 07-15-2010, 02:34 PM

Maybe the dealership "forgets" in bulk selling cars, I would say (I bought from Smithtown Niassn they say they're the 2nd largest) even the biggest Nissan dealers don't really sell Z's that often... it can't be that they slacked off.

I will certainly not buy that "because it was getting late , they forgot". . . they MAKE it get late so they can rush u into high pressure situations and make you walk out with the car ASAP so you don't change ur mind.

zZSoCalZz · 07-15-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

It hasn't actually gone to collection yet, his conversation was with the dealer's collection department, but I agree in general.

OP, if you were talking to the GM on the phone, it sounds like they are a lousy dealership. Did he offer up any proof you owe the money? On the face of it, as others have suggested, the fact that you have the car, financing, and an executed contract that shows you paid a $1000 down payment puts the burden of proof on the dealership to show that some portion of the contract that you were responsible for was not satisfied -- Do they have a signed promissory note for the $1000 dollars that you have no proof was paid?

They have no such thing. Well at least not one signed by me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

You might still want to go down with the contract showing a $1,000.00 cash deposit was made and explain that, that is your receipt.

Also, call me paranoid, I wouldn't drive down there in your Z. Have a friend or family member give you a ride...

Thanks for the tip but at this point I'm losing all patience and am really considering legal action myself.

dudafunk · 07-15-2010, 02:37 PM

It will cost you more than $1000 to recover your $1000.. the dealership knows this too.
You must be young, they must've seen you're inexperienced and excited, you must've gone alone while signing... they're putting you in pressure. My opinion.

elmz · 07-15-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph B

Why would the dealer let you have the car in the first place if they didn't take your 1k cash at signing? Doesn't make sense.

+1 This is good advice. If you end up going to court keep this in mind, along with your contract (which they wrote up) showing the $1000 cash as part of the agreement. Also express why 3 months later this is all of sudden turning up? This will show how un-organized they are and how it is very possible they screwed up the paperworks and anything else for that matter. Good luck man!

07-15-2010, 02:02 PM	#65 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	^^You are right. We have no idea really what is going on. It will really come down to how they handle there policies and procedures on taking deposits. If I have receipts for 99.99999% of my transactions, because that is our policy and we are missing one deposit and don't have a receipt for said deposit, and neither does the customer, who do you think will win??? I honestly wonder how this is going to play out. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-15-2010, 02:05 PM	#67 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	It's going to come down to the dealers practice on handling deposits in my mind. If the dealer had receipts for only half their deposits his done in court. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-15-2010, 02:24 PM	#68 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. The dealer sounds fishy in this case. Someone just bought a 30k automobile, you forgot to get his deposit. And furthermore you forget that you forgot his deposit (or just couldn't be bothered to call him up) and it is assigned to a credit collector for the dealership months later... __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

07-15-2010, 02:32 PM	#71 (permalink)
Matt A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Augusta, GA Age: 41 Posts: 1,680 Drives: 2010 Avalanche LT Rep Power: 18	When I bought my car, I put 7k (or 9k) down. I had a large amount of it in cash, and the rest I put on my debit card. The told me that I had 14 days to give the whole amount, if I needed. The contract shows the down payment, the receipt shows the proof it's paid. I got 2 receipts, one for the cash...one for the debit. I hope it doesn't end up being an expensive lesson, but you really should always get a receipt. It become even more important when it's cash, as there is no transaction recorded anywhere else. __________________ "Any man who can drive a 370z while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the Z the attention it deserves." Albert Einstein....modified.

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07-15-2010, 01:53 PM	#61 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	I think this is a simple situation that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich should clear up nicely. Now that I think about it, when I put 10,000 cash down on mine, I can't for the life of me remember if I got a reciept at the time. That would suuuuck if they called foul on that amount..lol!

07-15-2010, 02:32 PM	#70 (permalink)
dudafunk Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 421 Drives: '09 370z Base Red AT Rep Power: 15	LOL... new twist.. I doubt that the OP is making it up, but hey its 3.30pm and the boss is out. Subscribe thread.

07-15-2010, 02:34 PM	#72 (permalink)
dudafunk Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 421 Drives: '09 370z Base Red AT Rep Power: 15	Maybe the dealership "forgets" in bulk selling cars, I would say (I bought from Smithtown Niassn they say they're the 2nd largest) even the biggest Nissan dealers don't really sell Z's that often... it can't be that they slacked off. I will certainly not buy that "because it was getting late , they forgot". . . they MAKE it get late so they can rush u into high pressure situations and make you walk out with the car ASAP so you don't change ur mind.

07-15-2010, 02:37 PM	#74 (permalink)
dudafunk Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 421 Drives: '09 370z Base Red AT Rep Power: 15	It will cost you more than $1000 to recover your $1000.. the dealership knows this too. You must be young, they must've seen you're inexperienced and excited, you must've gone alone while signing... they're putting you in pressure. My opinion.