Dealer Scam? Need advise.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 01:25 PM

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

spinhead · 07-15-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

Even if that were the case, I think it still leaves the burden on the dealership to prove that he did not pay. Their own fault for letting him leave without paying. Just like with a disputed credit card charge, the burden is on the retailer to show signature proof that the purchase was made (or some kind of proof, like delivery confirmation to the person in question).

shadoquad · 07-15-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinhead

Even if that were the case, I think it still leaves the burden on the dealership to prove that he did not pay. Their own fault for letting him leave without paying. Just like with a disputed credit card charge, the burden is on the retailer to show signature proof that the purchase was made (or some kind of proof, like delivery confirmation to the person in question).

But that's the difference with a cash transaction. The burden is on the consumer to hold on to their receipt as proof of purchase.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

But that's the difference with a cash transaction. The burden is on the consumer to hold on to their receipt as proof of purchase.

Actually, there is no such burden on a consumer to keep receipts for purchases. Taking delivery of an item where there is no further documentation that additional moneys are owed -- like a promissory note -- is prima facia evidence that the item was paid for in full.

The dealer may be able to mitagate that prima facia evidence by showing circumstances that make it likely the money wasn't paid -- F&I guy specifically remembers he didn't get the money, the books for that night show $1000 short, evidence of a timely phone call or correspondence by the F&I guy or general manager to the effect that "sorry to bother you, but in the rush we forgot to get your deposit".

But, we don't know if the OP's dealer has any of that evidence. According the the OP he got a cold call from the collection department at the dealership months later saying he owed the money.

shadoquad · 07-15-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Actually, there is no such burden on a consumer to keep receipts for purchases. Taking delivery of an item where there is no further documentation that additional moneys are owed -- like a promissory note -- is prima facia evidence that the item was paid for in full.

The dealer may be able to mitagate that prima facia evidence by showing circumstances that make it likely the money wasn't paid -- F&I guy specifically remembers he didn't get the money, the books for that night show $1000 short, evidence of a timely phone call or correspondence by the F&I guy or general manager to the effect that "sorry to bother you, but in the rush we forgot to get your deposit".

But, we don't know if the OP's dealer has any of that evidence. According the the OP he got a cold call from the collection department at the dealership months later saying he owed the money.

hmm. ok. But paying with most other methods would have made this more cut and dried. A check or credit card involves a third party who can verify or refute the claim from their records. Makes it a lot easier to prove one way or another.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

hmm. ok. But paying with most other methods would have made this more cut and dried. A check or credit card involves a third party who can verify or refute the claim from their records. Makes it a lot easier to prove one way or another.

Quite right.

Modshack · 07-15-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

I can see this happening (BTDT as a Sales Manager for a dealership)....Especially because of the "rushed" transaction/closing described by the OP...

chrisdc · 07-15-2010, 01:58 PM

My last F&I Manager forgot to collect a down payment once. I stress "once" because he was let go within the next couple of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

zZSoCalZz · 07-15-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

I counted the cash twice before I handed it over and the gentleman that worked my contract counted it twice. I mean he showed me where in the contract that stated $1000.00 was paid. I guess it was dumb of me to think that this was a receipt/contract. But yeah I would not go out of my way to accuse a business. I once used to own a business and I know word of mouth is #1 for advertising.

I'm sure it happens but what makes you think that the dealer asked to bring in cash knowingly... I didn't mention this in the OP but now I think about it I think they pulled a fast one on me.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zZSoCalZz

I counted the cash twice before I handed it over and the gentleman that worked my contract counted it twice. I mean he showed me where in the contract that stated $1000.00 was paid. I guess it was dumb of me to think that this was a receipt/contract. But yeah I would not go out of my way to accuse a business. I once used to own a business and I know word of mouth is #1 for advertising.

I'm sure it happens but what makes you think that the dealer asked to bring in cash knowingly... I didn't mention this in the OP but now I think about it I think they pulled a fast one on me.

Man, I would fight that one then. Sounds like you have at least 2 people that are involved, and I bet one doesn't know the other took the money.

It's not dumb of you( you trusted the company to handle the transaction properly), I didn't know all the facts, just stating the different scenarios.

zZSoCalZz · 07-15-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudafunk

It will cost you more than $1000 to recover your $1000.. the dealership knows this too.
You must be young, they must've seen you're inexperienced and excited, you must've gone alone while signing... they're putting you in pressure. My opinion.

I'm 30... Is that young still?

I guess I'm inexperienced with dealerships and law. and yes I went alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmz

+1 This is good advice. If you end up going to court keep this in mind, along with your contract (which they wrote up) showing the $1000 cash as part of the agreement. Also express why 3 months later this is all of sudden turning up? This will show how un-organized they are and how it is very possible they screwed up the paperworks and anything else for that matter. Good luck man!

Thanks for the advise.
I checked 4 times what it stated on the contract and kept it in a safe place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Man, I would fight that one then. Sounds like you have at least 2 people that are involved, and I bet one doesn't know the other took the money.

It's not dumb of you( you trusted the company to handle the transaction properly), I didn't know all the facts, just stating the different scenarios.

I know you were throwing different scenarios out there. But I do agree more than one person was involved in this as well.

07-15-2010, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 544	It happens all the time. You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time! __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

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