as we get ready for the SC install, thinking through options on how to keep the oil cool... right now am leaning towards a hybrid system where we have one air-oil setrab core and one external water-oil heat exchanger working together... oil would continuously flow through the heat exchanger which would help regulate temps somewhat and when temps exceed the thermostat, flow would also run through the air-oil core

thoughts?

a couple links

External Heat Exchanger C&R Racing
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...ml#post1296893

That's the setup I was leaning towards. Where would you mount the air oil cooler though? Setting it in front of the radiator would reduce the efficiency of the radiator which would be somewhat self defeating.

i know there was a thread about this. berk had it on the 135 and ran into some issues.

could be set off to one side... will be using the stillen fascia only going forward and that has the big side scoops as you know

interesting... so berk used a hybrid setup? please point us to the link if you find it... i'll look as well... thanks

http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...exchanger.html

i will send it over when i find it.
make sure you have tons of cooling mods and if you get an oil cooler the 34 does fit.

hey jnaut, if you read this... would appreciate you shedding some light on what part of the fuel sending unit broke... I assume it is where the metal rods connect to the top panel... here's a pic

http://cj-motorsports.com/img/370p1.jpg

note to self on nasa TTS classing...

- TTS weight / whp target = 8.7
- min competition weight target = 3,215
- max whp target = 385
- unadjusted weight / whp = 8.35
- adjustment for using 275 series tires = +0.4
- other adjustments... none
- adjusted weight / whp = 8.75

Would like your guys input on tire selection... I will be running a 275/35/18 square setup, which will help keep my costs down and also gives me the 0.4 bonus points above (versus running 315s in the back and adding 135 pounds of ballast)... Given I have to use a DOT approved tire, I think I have three choices in this size

1. Ventus Z214 with "very soft" c91 tread... $267 per tire on tire rack
2. Hoosier A6... $315 on tire rack
3. BFG R1... $319 on tire rack

Do you guys have opinions on these three?

My opinion is that the A6 is too soft for open time trials where you are running many laps. They are good for clubs that do a single timed lap or a couple of laps, they will peak on the first lap and start to fall away in lap time. If I were to run Hoosiers I would run the harder compound R6.

Kuhmo V710 doesn't make a 18" 275, it is a 285.

No one I've talked to likes the R1's, they just don't have the grip of the top contenders.

The complaint about the Z214's is that they heat cycle out too quickly, where as the R6's and 710's you can run until they cord without the tire getting much slower.

710s are out for the reason you state

R6's also do not come in 275, only 285... to my knowledge - could be wrong

edit... scratch that... looks like they do have a 275

lots of questions tonight

what do you guys think about an under-body pan made out of FRP?... home depot sells 0.090 inch panels for $30 or so... 20 pounds for 32 square feet

.090 FRP Wall Board 4FTx8FT White-MFTF12IXA480009600 at The Home Depot
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...0f2211_300.jpg
http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...atalogId=10053

I'm not sure that it would be ridged enough to do any good, it is normally intended to be bonded to a backing panel. I would think that aluminum would have a better flex characteristic and not be much heavier.

may be right... check out the second link i posted... laminated frp on plastic core structure... should have more rigidity and weighs the same

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...d0792a_300.jpg

Okay that's more like it, seems like it would be pretty rigid.

Just found out that we can get the same stuff but with alum skin instead of frp... same weight but even stiffer and will have better heat / flame properties... you never know!... ordered three sheets from R&J sign supplies... we'll see what I can do with it

http://www.davonsales.com/pdfs/Corru..._AlumaCorr.pdf

Cool!

Yet another question then done for tonight haha

What fasteners do you guys recommend for the bottom of the car? I'm tearing through bolt heads on my splitter, as they contact the tarmac at 100mph, and imagine same will happen on undertray depending upon how aggressive I get with it

Travis, how are you liking the Stillen front end? The more of it I see, (especially on Mike the Powdercoaters black Z) the more I like it... Just kinda unsure about the fitment issues and the 3 pieces...

It's great for me... better aero, more room for cooling, etc.

For a street car, I would hesitate to use it because of the three piece design... and I'm not very picky... having the extra seam was a mistake on Stillen's part, I'm afraid to say... I think they did it for shipping purposes, but would have been better to leave it as one piece

Even if blended, likely to show cracks there eventually

Hopefully you won't be contact the undertray bolts-- maybe just countersink them?

Even the aluminum stuff looks like it has a relatively low ignition temp. It would make me kinda nervous.

Hmm, I'm just thinking for eventually one day a fun track car, and with the intercooler in the front, it will definitely look better.

And yeah I think it was for shipping? But if a good body shop does it, you think it's worth it?

Drywall screws :) <jk>

I would think about adding a thin sacrificial plastic/nylon strip, not as perfect aero wise but good at absorbing scrapes.

My body guy told me that he could try to hide / blend but it would eventually start to crack and that I ought to just go with it... that's what I did... for a track car, looks fine... overall, I think it looks better than stock

right!........ lol

was thinking maybe dzus fasteners but they're potentially not long enough

Hmmm... Damn. I really like it, and I'm wondering if with black, would it be harder to notice?? :icon08:

Maybe if Mike ever sells his, I can just pick it up cheap... :rofl2:

Hey, got these brake ducts for $24 each and they integrate very well with the OEM front fascia... something to think about for the rest of the track junkies

Howe Racing RE206 - Howe Air Ducts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...903_090009.jpg

Cheap too!

I like them!

Use rivets for the under side. Depending on how often you take the undertray off, it should be fine. nothing a quick drill can't take off. You would just have to get a new rivet each time. They're cheap enough. Rivet hand tools are too, I have one myself, something like 10 bucks.

same one Sam @ GTM has on his stop car.

the spec sheet said ignition point is 650F... It will always be at least 12" from exhaust, so I don't think there's an issue

Travis, the steel upright arms broke out of the platic, allowing your lower fp assembly floate on top of the fuel. until the wires actually ripped out of the upper plastic where the power wires for the fp exit the gas tank.

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump.



The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous.

Also dont worry about radiator keeping up with the extra heat, as yours is quite large.You will not notice any higher temps on your gauge. You can put on a separate controller for the fans , activating them sooner.

ok thanks

I suspect that it broke under peak g-loads during braking... they should have put a third rod in there to support fore / aft loads... heck, would have even been an improvement if the two rods were on the front/back instead of left/right

...I'm at a loss for how we re-assemble and strengthen that unit, so it doesn't happen again

we may have to buy a new OEM assembly

I wonder if phunk's new fuel starvation product includes one of these assemblies???

Keep us posted on the oil:water thing. Ever since I saw the pics of AM Perf's setup, I've been leaning towards upgrading by getting rid of my Setrab oil:air thing in favor of an oil:water box. Just not sure where and how I'd mount it, etc. AMP's setup seems to be a C&R oil:water unit + C&R radiator, with the factory fans gone (or perhaps just a single fan on the driver's side?).

Okay jnaut, I'm willing to take a gamble on it... we will try to oil-water heat exchanger only route... let me know if you want to handle procurement of the parts and what you propose specifically... as for the fan controller - I'd rather not have to remember to switch those on every time, so let's get an inexpensive thermoswitch to cut it on at 170-180F

...this should be an informative exercise... I'll keep one of the setrab cores handy just in case :tup:

that's a good point... the oil-water exchanger sits exactly where the factory fans do, so not clear how we keep both fans and add an exchanger... jnaut is going to have to get creative!

ok, ill take care of the parts as ill be measuring where im going to mount everything. First lets gets the s/c installed, but i already have a few ideas where the cooler is going.

At speed you have more airflow through the radiator than any fan can ever hope to deliver, the fan is more for low speed driving and I think on a track car 1 would be adequate.

... there's always time spent idling before / after sessions... agree, one fan would suffice... that sounds like a plan

? should I use one of the OEM fans or splurge on an aftermarket fan with built in thermoswitch?