Anyone here into firearms?

tvfreakazoid · 12-11-2012, 05:00 AM

How about a grendal or .50 beawulf

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

5.56 is ballistically bad for CQB imho. I'd look into 300 blackout and 6.8 if you don't want your rounds going through your target like a speeding needle. Plus you can push 122 gr rounds over 40-77 grain rounds which definately hit harder. Even the new m855a1 ammo for 5.56 cant compare to these rounds for stopping power.
IMHO, if you need OTM ammo to stop people well instead of generic FMJ rifle rounds. It's not a good defense round unless you can obtain an OTM rounds cheaply. 5.56 otm ammo is expensive. Silver state is awesome ammo at a good price for the 5.56, but currently, anything worth putting into a 5.56 rifle for CQB is sold out and prices are upmarket. For that i'd support a round that with enough sales, prices will drop and you can get more effective stopping power with a basic round. 6.8 and .300blackout have devastating affects on targets both CQ and LR.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-11-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvfreakazoid

How about a grendal or .50 beawulf

Great rounds but in terms of good firearms selection, those calibers are alot more specialized then the two I mentioned. .50 beowolf are ultimate stopping power rounds but SHTF scenario rifle it wont make a great round. due to limited ammo capacity/availability, price and the weight factor. As far as 6.5 grendel I presume? Try finding an AR now that has an upper for that round? They are quickly becoming scarce. It came in and out like the wind on AR platforms. On a bolt action, you definitely will find a variety of those calibers in solid accurate guns.

6.8 and .300 blackout aren't the most available rounds either, but the market place is dramatically growing for it. 6.8 barrett mags are 30 rounds. Which is equal to 5.56 mags. Or you can replace the followers on 5.56 and get 25/26/28 rounds depending.
.300 blackout fits in all 5.56 mags and drums. So you get higher versatility with .300 blackout. All you need is a new barrel.

ZMan8 · 12-11-2012, 02:32 PM

Us court of appeals just said illinois ban on concealed weapons is unconstitutional.

about time.

I'll be joining this discussion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

MacCool · 12-11-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Personally I'd go for a 5.56 AR set up for CQ stuff

I agree. Plenty of good self defense ammo available in .223 and 5.56.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-11-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I agree. Plenty of good self defense ammo available in .223 and 5.56.

.300 blackout fits in AR mags and drums. lol

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

5.56 is ballistically bad for CQB imho. You're entitled to your opinion, but a few weeks ago I spent the weekend with some guys that used it to great effect for CQB. I'd look into 300 blackout and 6.8 if you don't want your rounds going through your target like a speeding needle. Huh? Plus you can push 122 gr rounds over 40-77 grain rounds which definately hit harder True, they do have more momentum. THere is a give/take to everything, though.. Even the new m855a1 ammo for 5.56 cant compare to these rounds for stopping power. No, it's not the greatest thing out there, that's for sure, but at least it's better than M855. I use TSX or bonded softpoints, though.
IMHO, if you need OTM ammo to stop people well instead of generic FMJ rifle rounds. This goes for any and every caliber. FMJ just sucks. It's not a good defense round unless you can obtain an OTM rounds cheaply. 5.56 otm ammo is expensive. Premium 5.56 ammo costs the same or less as .300/.308/6.5. You wouldn't/shouldn't use FMJ in those, either. The difference is, cheap practice ammo exists in 5.56. Not so much the others, comparatively. Silver state is awesome ammo at a good price for the 5.56, but currently, anything worth putting into a 5.56 rifle for CQB is sold out and prices are upmarket. Not true, please see my links below. For that i'd support a round that with enough sales, prices will drop and you can get more effective stopping power with a basic round. 6.8 and .300blackout have devastating affects on targets both CQ and LR. As does the 5.56, except only out to 300-350 yards, which is about the same useful range as 300BLK, terminally speaking. I have plenty of pictures that would make you say "OH CRAP!", they are just a bit graphic for this forum.

Using cheap FMJ ammo, any caliber is dismal compared to premium ammo. Premium 5.56 does just fine, and costs the same or less as other premium caliber ammo. Difference is you can get cheaper practice ammo in 5.56, and training trumps gear any and every day of the week.

20 rds - 5.56mm Bonded Winchester Ranger 64GR JSP Ammo RA556B | SGAmmo.com

Ammo To Go : 20rds - 5.56 Silver State Armory 70gr. Barnes Lead Free TSX BT Ammo [SSA70GREEN] - $23.95

Ammo To Go : 50rds - 5.56 Nato Black Hills Barnes TSX 50gr. Hollow Point Ammo [D556N1] - $69.95

Me personally? I bought 1300 rounds of 64gr Speer Gold Dot 2012 LE ammunition and called it good. I paid $18/20 + shipping. Everything else is practice ammo, and that stays in my stash and mags. Why? It runs 2500fps from a 10.5" barrel, it expands to double caliber out to about 200 yards, it's <2MOA accurate, it's low-flash, and it has sealed primers. Very good on barriers, as well. The windshields and car body we shot up with it showed MUCH better performance than M855 and M193, which fragged on the REAR windshield, even. That shocked me. Gold Dot would hold up going through FRONT windshields much better, although it was deflected when shooting from inside of the car to outside targets. That's why if in a car, jam the muzzle through after the first round clears a path through the windshield. Outside shooting in, distance to target makes the deflection a moot point.

Anyway, I am still evaluating the 70gr TSX, but typical performance on game animals is 0.4-0.5" expansion and 24-26" of penetration with 1/2" permanent cavities through muscle, etc. observed. Quick, bloody kills. PM me if you are just dying for pix.

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

.300 blackout fits in AR mags and drums. lol

Premium ammo costs similar, training ammo drastically favors 5.56, performance on-target difference between a similarly placed projectile doesn't differ much when both are loaded with good ammunition. Unless you are working around vehicles a lot (greater mass does do better on body panels, etc. in some cases), 300AAC doesn't make sense to me.

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 02:57 AM

Conjugal visit, I already possess the can, but the rifle went pending Aug. 1st.

Noveske 10.5" CHF chrome-lined barrel
Switchblock
Surefire -212a FH/mount
Surefire 556-212
2MOA T1 in LT751 mount
Noveske factory SBR lower
Geissele SSA trigger
Vltor 7" VIS upper
Surefire M600C Scout in LT offset tucked mount
LT FUG (not pictured)
PIG Slider 1-point sling (not pictured)
Noveske/Troy BUIS
Factory Noveske SBR build with a 12.5" upper (clone of 10.5" upper), 10.5" upper also included (pictured).

wstar · 12-12-2012, 08:24 AM

Re: the 5.56 CQB debate: yeah it all depends on the ammo. There are obviously superior cartridges, but 5.56 has the (to me, massive) benefit of ubiquity. No matter what kind of zombie scenario you ever find yourself in, if there's a gun store around or an ammo depot to raid, there will be 5.56 in stock

. You can't say that about a lot of the specialty stuff. .308 (aka 7.62x51 NATO) and 9mm (x19) are similarly really solid choices on universal, unending availability anywhere on the planet.

My 5.56 stuff of choice is Hornady 75gr TAP when I have the choice and the dollars to stock it though. But really, M855 works fine and I stock that too for plinking and emergency supplies. Either way it will get the job done. If you don't think it's an effective deterrent or manstopper, I challenge you to select the worst-performing normal 5.56 round you can find and stand 100 yards away while someone unloads a clip of it into your chest

MacCool · 12-12-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Re: the 5.56 CQB debate: yeah it all depends on the ammo.

No. Actually it depends very little on the ammo. It depends mostly on the ability of the shooter to consistently get rounds on target.

Many people like to obsess over their ammo choice, yet pay little attention to their training and practice. I would much rather put my life in the hands of a well-trained shooter shooting M193 than a casual weekend plinker shooting the most magical self-defense bullet on the market.

I see a lot of people on this forum with some really great hardware. They describe it well and lovingly post pictures of it here for all of us to drool over. I rarely see anyone here post their experience at their recent defensive carbine training course.

The hardware, ammo included is important. The ability to use that hardware effectively is infinitely more important. Before spending much mental effort on which ammo you're going to use in your defensive carbine, I think it's most wise to realistically evaluate your ability to shoot effectively in those scenarios that go beyond punching paper or plinking at tin cans. Go buy 5,000 rounds of .223 and shoot it over the next year. Take at least one defensive carbine course. THEN let's have the discussion about which ammo will kill a human best. Until then, save your money. You're going to be far more likely to just put a lot of expensive ammo past your attacker's 10-ring.

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

No. Actually it depends very little on the ammo. It depends mostly on the ability of the shooter to consistently get rounds on target.

Many people like to obsess over their ammo choice, yet pay little attention to their training and practice. I would much rather put my life in the hands of a well-trained shooter shooting M193 than a casual weekend plinker shooting the most magical self-defense bullet on the market.

I see a lot of people on this forum with some really great hardware. They describe it well and lovingly post pictures of it here for all of us to drool over. I rarely see anyone here post their experience at their recent defensive carbine training course.

The hardware, ammo included is important. The ability to use that hardware effectively is infinitely more important. Before spending much mental effort on which ammo you're going to use in your defensive carbine, I think it's most wise to realistically evaluate your ability to shoot effectively in those scenarios that go beyond punching paper or plinking at tin cans. Go buy 5,000 rounds of .223 and shoot it over the next year. Take at least one defensive carbine course. THEN let's have the discussion about which ammo will kill a human best. Until then, save your money. You're going to be far more likely to just put a lot of expensive ammo past your attacker's 10-ring.

I agree, except when it comes to barriers. In 5.56, you really REALLY need bonded ammo if you plan to encounter them.

As for me, VTAC Carbine 1.5 this November, scheduled for Streetfighter this coming April, not sure what's after that. As always, put them where it matters as quick as possible!

xdeslitx · 12-12-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

unloads a clip

one of my biggest pet peeves

Rooster89 · 12-15-2012, 08:22 AM

Thinking about trading in my ruger m77 in 300 win mag for a tikka t3 in .308

Those tikkas are amazing rifles!

tranceformer · 12-16-2012, 08:56 AM

My first rifle! Just picked it up yesterday.

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 MOE model

I already have a M&P9c and Shield 9mm, so I guess this makes me a S&W wh0re?

m4a1mustang · 12-16-2012, 09:39 AM

I think I'm going to stock up on some more 9mm and 5.56.

12-11-2012, 02:32 PM	#2553 (permalink)
ZMan8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,844 Drives: 10 370z 40th M6 Rep Power: 658	Us court of appeals just said illinois ban on concealed weapons is unconstitutional. about time. I'll be joining this discussion. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2 m4a1mustang, UNKNOWN_370, Rooster89 and 1 others like this. __________________ 2010 370Z 40 Anniv., 6 MT \| Fast Intentions \| Swift Springs \| SPC \| Z1Motorsports \| JWM \| Redline Oils \| 35% Window Tint 2015 Mazda6 \| 370ZChicago: Chicago Area Cars & Coffee

12-12-2012, 02:57 AM	#2558 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7626	Conjugal visit, I already possess the can, but the rifle went pending Aug. 1st. Noveske 10.5" CHF chrome-lined barrel Switchblock Surefire -212a FH/mount Surefire 556-212 2MOA T1 in LT751 mount Noveske factory SBR lower Geissele SSA trigger Vltor 7" VIS upper Surefire M600C Scout in LT offset tucked mount LT FUG (not pictured) PIG Slider 1-point sling (not pictured) Noveske/Troy BUIS Factory Noveske SBR build with a 12.5" upper (clone of 10.5" upper), 10.5" upper also included (pictured). BlackZeda and OMGiGOTaZ like this.

12-12-2012, 08:24 AM	#2559 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Re: the 5.56 CQB debate: yeah it all depends on the ammo. There are obviously superior cartridges, but 5.56 has the (to me, massive) benefit of ubiquity. No matter what kind of zombie scenario you ever find yourself in, if there's a gun store around or an ammo depot to raid, there will be 5.56 in stock . You can't say that about a lot of the specialty stuff. .308 (aka 7.62x51 NATO) and 9mm (x19) are similarly really solid choices on universal, unending availability anywhere on the planet. My 5.56 stuff of choice is Hornady 75gr TAP when I have the choice and the dollars to stock it though. But really, M855 works fine and I stock that too for plinking and emergency supplies. Either way it will get the job done. If you don't think it's an effective deterrent or manstopper, I challenge you to select the worst-performing normal 5.56 round you can find and stand 100 yards away while someone unloads a clip of it into your chest __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 12-12-2012 at 08:28 AM.

12-16-2012, 08:56 AM	#2564 (permalink)
tranceformer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,213 Drives: 2009 370Z PW 6MT Rep Power: 267	My first rifle! Just picked it up yesterday. Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 MOE model I already have a M&P9c and Shield 9mm, so I guess this makes me a S&W wh0re? BlackZeda and OMGiGOTaZ like this. __________________ Ray 2009 370Z Base Sport 6MT / 12.860 @ 109.09mph / 1.921 60ft / street tires official 1/4 mile track times

12-16-2012, 09:39 AM	#2565 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I think I'm going to stock up on some more 9mm and 5.56. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!