Anyone here into firearms?

MacCool · 08-02-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvfreakazoid

how was the firearm course with the xdm? Or have you not gone yet?

This weekend. Goes Sunday/Monday. I just re-replaced the sights on my M&P9L - back to the OEM 3-dots. I just could not warm up to the two-dot Warrens. They're mechanical dead-center but I have to sight them in. My buddy with the XDm .40 is clamoring to do a little prep work before this weekend. Probably a good idea - I hate to go to these things rusty, although we both just did a defensive handgun course about a week ago. I used the Sig .40 for that defensive course since that's what I carry, but I prefer my M&P in 9mm for these high round-count courses where I'm shooting with a bunch of cops and don't want to look bad (in fact, the instructor for the defensive handgun course is a student at this upcoming course too).

ImportConvert · 08-07-2011, 08:31 AM

Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. *impatient whining*

ImportConvert · 08-07-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

This weekend. Goes Sunday/Monday. I just re-replaced the sights on my M&P9L - back to the OEM 3-dots. I just could not warm up to the two-dot Warrens. They're mechanical dead-center but I have to sight them in. My buddy with the XDm .40 is clamoring to do a little prep work before this weekend. Probably a good idea - I hate to go to these things rusty, although we both just did a defensive handgun course about a week ago. I used the Sig .40 for that defensive course since that's what I carry, but I prefer my M&P in 9mm for these high round-count courses where I'm shooting with a bunch of cops and don't want to look bad (in fact, the instructor for the defensive handgun course is a student at this upcoming course too).

I really think 9mm is where it's at. The bad rap that it got came from:

a)poor marksmanship (lots of thugs just pointing and clicking, not many people die that way)
b)sub-standard ammunition in the 80's
c)a lot of people who want to cite .38 revolver performance on a far away island using ball ammunition compared to .45 LC revolver performance also using ball ammunition.
d)appeals to many different logical fallacies too numerous to name.

Using modern JHP ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done, and you can't put a price on more chances to hit your target when actual hit percentages in gunfights are so low.

Isamu · 08-07-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. *impatient whining*

stuff a tampon in, you'll be ok....

but seriously.. what is it?

ImportConvert · 08-07-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

stuff a tampon in, you'll be ok....

but seriously.. what is it?

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

Isamu · 08-07-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

mmmm M4...
I need to get one myself.. like this one. which was mine.. for 6mo

MacCool · 08-07-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

That's a nice can. Sadly, Minnesota is a no-suppressor state. Otherwise both of my Noveske SBRs would have one with switchblocks.

ImportConvert · 08-07-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

That's a nice can. Sadly, Minnesota is a no-suppressor state. Otherwise both of my Noveske SBRs would have one with switchblocks.

I thought about an SBR, too, but ironically, the suppressor and the AOW are the only 2 NFA items I am aware of that you can cross state lines with without a BATFE permission slip, which means I can travel and go shooting without a bunch of paperwork. That's the only reason I did it. Once it's yours, just stay out of the states that don't allow them and you're G2G.

Baer383 · 08-07-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

Something like this

MacCool · 08-07-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I really think 9mm is where it's at. The bad rap that it got came from:

a)poor marksmanship (lots of thugs just pointing and clicking, not many people die that way)
b)sub-standard ammunition in the 80's
c)a lot of people who want to cite .38 revolver performance on a far away island using ball ammunition compared to .45 LC revolver performance also using ball ammunition.
d)appeals to many different logical fallacies too numerous to name.

Using modern JHP ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done, and you can't put a price on more chances to hit your target when actual hit percentages in gunfights are so low.

The terminal ballistics of 9mm just don't hold up to .40 S&W, but IMHO those are mostly laboratory findings. I agree with you that many, many people blame the round when tactics and shot placement are the real culprits. The superiority of .40 gets a little thin in real-world shootings these days, but the basis of .40 S&W of course was the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The FBI's basis for switching to the 10mm round (then later the .40 S&W when they saw the negatives of the 10mm blast and recoil) was the medical examiner's report. His rather exhaustive analysis made mention of the very remarkable accuracy of the FBI agents, especially under fire, but that the 9mm rounds just weren't having the incapacitating effect that they would have expected from the shot placement. The thing that makes me a little skeptical is that the first gunman took a shot to the chest right off the bat which collapsed his lung and hit his pulmonary artery. That wasn't a survivable wound, but most of the injuries and deaths he inflicted occurred after that wound. I doubt that a .40 cal would have made him die any faster.

MacCool · 08-07-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I thought about an SBR, too, but ironically, the suppressor and the AOW are the only 2 NFA items I am aware of that you can cross state lines with without a BATFE permission slip, which means I can travel and go shooting without a bunch of paperwork. That's the only reason I did it. Once it's yours, just stay out of the states that don't allow them and you're G2G.

Turnaround time on an ATF form 5320-20 is reliably less than two weeks. It's pretty simple - download the form, fill it out and mail it. You can put an end date of up to 364 days.

m4a1mustang · 08-07-2011, 06:59 PM

I am 100% comfortable with the 9mm round. Like has been mentioned already, quality, modern ammunition and shot placement are critical. And I'm quite confident in my shot placement.

Anyways, went to the range yesterday with a friend. Shot his M&P .45. Nice gun. It did further solidify my belief that the Glock pistols are a better fit for me, but it was still nice.

The real treat was his Ruger GP100. I think I have to buy one now. It'd make a great trail gun.

ImportConvert · 08-08-2011, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

Something like this

Well. Kinda. Full rail, ACOG, midlength gas system, sopmod stock, troy buis, etc. Same can though!

ImportConvert · 08-08-2011, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

The terminal ballistics of 9mm just don't hold up to .40 S&W, but IMHO those are mostly laboratory findings. I agree with you that many, many people blame the round when tactics and shot placement are the real culprits. The superiority of .40 gets a little thin in real-world shootings these days, but the basis of .40 S&W of course was the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The FBI's basis for switching to the 10mm round (then later the .40 S&W when they saw the negatives of the 10mm blast and recoil) was the medical examiner's report. His rather exhaustive analysis made mention of the very remarkable accuracy of the FBI agents, especially under fire, but that the 9mm rounds just weren't having the incapacitating effect that they would have expected from the shot placement. The thing that makes me a little skeptical is that the first gunman took a shot to the chest right off the bat which collapsed his lung and hit his pulmonary artery. That wasn't a survivable wound, but most of the injuries and deaths he inflicted occurred after that wound. I doubt that a .40 cal would have made him die any faster.

the failure was due to the bullet used. They now have ammo that expands well and penetrates 12"+. Then, it was kinda either/or.

ImportConvert · 08-08-2011, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Turnaround time on an ATF form 5320-20 is reliably less than two weeks. It's pretty simple - download the form, fill it out and mail it. You can put an end date of up to 364 days.

Still a pain as I'm 20 minutes from 2 state lines. Would rather not. Besides, sbr's are hard on silencers.

08-07-2011, 06:59 PM	#1332 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I am 100% comfortable with the 9mm round. Like has been mentioned already, quality, modern ammunition and shot placement are critical. And I'm quite confident in my shot placement. Anyways, went to the range yesterday with a friend. Shot his M&P .45. Nice gun. It did further solidify my belief that the Glock pistols are a better fit for me, but it was still nice. The real treat was his Ruger GP100. I think I have to buy one now. It'd make a great trail gun. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

08-07-2011, 08:31 AM	#1322 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7626	Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. impatient whining