Post your pets!

FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Why do you need to be able to tell them apart to dislike the so-called "cheaters"?

I dislike the fact that companies sell and people buy $50 kits with fake service animal certificates and badges. I don't need to know which individuals are participating in it to dislike them.

If someone is calling them out in person at the airport, that's one thing. But no one's doing that

Jar, I think you’re missing spoolers point. We all dislike cheaters, but if you see someone with a support dog you usually can’t just tell who’s legit and whose a cheater so you Nd up hating on both the good and the bad.

There ought to be a way to be able to at least cut down on the cheaters but I honestly don’t have any ideas off the top of my head.

Spooler · 06-02-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Jar, I think you’re missing spoolers point. We all dislike cheaters, but if you see someone with a support dog you usually can’t just tell who’s legit and whose a cheater so you Nd up hating on both the good and the bad.

There ought to be a way to be able to at least cut down on the cheaters but I honestly don’t have any ideas off the top of my head.

Yeap, that is the point.

Hotrodz · 06-02-2020, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Jar, I think you’re missing spoolers point. We all dislike cheaters, but if you see someone with a support dog you usually can’t just tell who’s legit and whose a cheater so you Nd up hating on both the good and the bad.

There ought to be a way to be able to at least cut down on the cheaters but I honestly don’t have any ideas off the top of my head.

There is no law that gives support animals special status. On the other hand people who own service do get special dispensation because a dog or Sheldon pony are the only animals classified as service animals by law. The are certified and preform a qualifying service such as a seeing eye or hearing dog. The law protects service animal owners and a business owner can only ask two questions...is that a service dog and what service does it provide you? The issue is as Jar points out anyone can get a vest for their dog the reads service dog and if the person is familiar with the law when asked the questions they will say yes and she alerts me if I'm about to have a seizure.

So what can a business owner do under the law? Well the law requires the dog to be under control of its owner at all times. It should not approach other people and jump up on them. They are not to be disruptive other than to alert their handler and they should not relieve themselves or cause any other damage to the business. So that is how you tell the difference...they don't behave! The issue is most businesses don't ask the questions and are afraid to take action. For my staff if the don't ask the questions and take appropriate action when necessary it will result in disciplinary action.

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FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

There is no law that gives support animals special status. On the other hand people who own service do get special dispensation because a dog or Sheldon pony are the only animals classified as service animals by law. The are certified and preform a qualifying service such as a seeing eye or hearing dog. The law protects service animal owners and a business owner can only ask two questions...is that a service dog and what service does it provide you? The issue is as Jar points out anyone can get a vest for their dog the reads service dog and if the person is familiar with the law when asked the questions they will say yes and she alerts me if I'm about to have a seizure.

So what can a business owner do under the law? Well the law requires the dog to be under control of its owner at all times. It should not approach other people and jump up on them. They are not to be disruptive other than to alert their handler and they should not relieve themselves or cause any other damage to the business. So that is how you tell the difference...they don't behave! The issue is most businesses don't ask the questions and are afraid to take action. For my staff if the don't ask the questions and take appropriate action when necessary it will result in disciplinary action.

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One of the problems is that service animals are classified too narrowly and support animals bc they are unregulated, the designation gets misused too often. An emotional support dog for someone with tbi and ptsd gets no special status as you pointed out yet serves just as important a role in that persons life as an officially designated service dog that alerts someone of an impending seizure.

The problem is in the above scenario, the disabled person with the critically important support animal has no legal support for their animal, the people around them can’t just tell why that person needs a support animal, and too many people fake needing a support animal so no one can tell what’s what anymore.

FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

I'm not missing the point. I'm just pointing out that I don't have to identify the person to dislike their actions. I don't look at people in the airport and get pissed because I think they are lying about their service animal. In truth, IDGAF what they do if it doesn't disturb me or others. But I can still be against the idea of being disingenuous to make money off someone trying to deceive a business.

Hotrodz is spot on. My primary issue with these people is their animals are often ill-behaved. At that point, IDGAF if your dog is a service animal or not - if it's being disruptive in public, I'm going to think you're a disrespectful jerkass, and even more so if you lied about your service animal.

We are all against profiting off lies and cheating, at least I hope so. But while you are not bothered by someone who is disabled but “looks able”, there are many many folks who are and that leads to quite a bit of discrimination.

No ones service or Support animal should or is allowed to be disruptive in public or a business. Treat them like a human patron/citizen, you disrupt a restaurant, you get told to leave, if your animal does same, same outcome. Real service and support animals are trained and are very rarely disruptive. And on the rare occasion it happens, the person almost always is super embarrassed and voluntarily leaves.

You can tell the fakers not just bc the animals are poorly behaved but also bc the humans act rude and entitled.

JARblue · 06-02-2020, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

But while you are not bothered by someone who is disabled but “looks able”, there are many many folks who are and that leads to quite a bit of discrimination.

People like to judge others. I don't understand why being discriminatory and negative is better than trying to understand from their perspective.

I deal with accessibility building codes for a living. It's amazing how often I tell someone a code requirement and they say it's the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard of. Then I explain how the requirement actually removes the architectural barrier and makes the element accessible to people with certain disabilities they hadn't thought of. All of a sudden it's ok.

Why does something have to be ridiculous just because you don't understand it?

FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

People like to judge others. I don't understand why being discriminatory and negative is better than trying to understand from their perspective.

I deal with accessibility building codes for a living. It's amazing how often I tell someone a code requirement and they say it's the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard of. Then I explain how the requirement actually removes the architectural barrier and makes the element accessible to people with certain disabilities they hadn't thought of. All of a sudden it's ok.

Why does something have to be ridiculous just because you don't understand it?

At the risk of being too religiousy, the old saying “but for the grace of god go I”, needs to be on the forefront of more people’s minds. Empathy is too often a four letter word.

Hotrodz · 06-02-2020, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

People like to judge others. I don't understand why being discriminatory and negative is better than trying to understand from their perspective.

I deal with accessibility building codes for a living. It's amazing how often I tell someone a code requirement and they say it's the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard of. Then I explain how the requirement actually removes the architectural barrier and makes the element accessible to people with certain disabilities they hadn't thought of. All of a sudden it's ok.

Why does something have to be ridiculous just because you don't understand it?

So spot on! In my current position I deal with this all the time as the COO for my company. You the regulations surrounding an inpatient psychiatric facility are pretty much unattainable but we do it and we allow service dogs within the unit.

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Hotrodz · 06-02-2020, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

One of the problems is that service animals are classified too narrowly and support animals bc they are unregulated, the designation gets misused too often. An emotional support dog for someone with tbi and ptsd gets no special status as you pointed out yet serves just as important a role in that persons life as an officially designated service dog that alerts someone of an impending seizure.

The problem is in the above scenario, the disabled person with the critically important support animal has no legal support for their animal, the people around them can’t just tell why that person needs a support animal, and too many people fake needing a support animal so no one can tell what’s what anymore.

You are missing the point as service animals were limited to the two animals for exactly, Jar's point. A service animal provides service other than being a pet. Support animals are equivalent to a pet and only have that designation because it is proven that pets have a real impact on people. Many behavioral health professionals recommend to many people who do not have a pet that get a dog or cat to provide them comfort to deal with stress, anxiety, depression and the list goes on. There is no training or certification required for a service animal. The designation will help some get affordable housing if they have a note from their psychiatrist stating there animal is a support animal. Also, a veteran or anyone with PTSD can get a Service dog for there illness. They trained to see it coming on and alert their master.

I have dealing with service dogs and support animals practically my career, both of them. No you can't have a chimpanzee as a service animal or support animal. They are dangerous on will bit your face off or rip your junck and limbs from your body.

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FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

You are missing the point as service animals were limited to the two animals for exactly, Jar's point. A service animal provides service other than being a pet. Support animals are equivalent to a pet and only have that designation because it is proven that pets have a real impact on people. Many behavioral health professionals recommend to many people who do not have a pet that get a dog or cat to provide them comfort to deal with stress, anxiety, depression and the list goes on. There is no training or certification required for a service animal. The designation will help some get affordable housing if they have a note from their psychiatrist stating there animal is a support animal. Also, a veteran or anyone with PTSD can get a Service dog for there illness. They trained to see it coming on and alert their master.

I have dealing with service dogs and support animals practically my career, both of them. No you can't have a chimpanzee as a service animal or support animal. They are dangerous on will bit your face off or rip your junck and limbs from your body.

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I think I wasn’t clear before, I wasn’t advocating for an expanded definition of what kinds of animals can be service animals, rather I am advocating that what types of disabilities qualify for service animals should be expanded. To my knowledge there are no service dogs for ptsd and tbi, only emotional support dogs and the training isn’t standardized for support animals and this is where #hit starts to break down and some folks take advantage.

Also, I’m just going to say it even though I may come off as being thin skinned, when you say dogs, pets etc are all emotional support animals and help their humans, while true, in the context o& this particular discussion comes off, at least to me as belittling and demeaning folks with real psychiatric and brain disabilities.

Hotrodz · 06-02-2020, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I think I wasn’t clear before, I wasn’t advocating for an expanded definition of what kinds of animals can be service animals, rather I am advocating that what types of disabilities qualify for service animals should be expanded. To my knowledge there are no service dogs for ptsd and tbi, only emotional support dogs and the training isn’t standardized for support animals and this is where #hit starts to break down and some folks take advantage.

Also, I’m just going to say it even though I may come off as being thin skinned, when you say dogs, pets etc are all emotional support animals and help their humans, while true, in the context o& this particular discussion comes off, at least to me as belittling and demeaning folks with real psychiatric and brain disabilities.

Your not thin skin at all, you just don't have a complete perspective. I never meant to demean people who that have or use support dogs, cats or horses as the benefits are huge. I was purely stating the lawful difference between the two. Support animals exist because there a reason many of us have "pets" so those in the behavioral mental health field recognized the benefits of owning a pet and gave it a name to help people that would benefit from having a companion that provides unconditional love. We are in total agreement surrounding that.

That said if you own service animal, support animal or pet. I am with Jar it needs to be under control at all times.

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FL 4Motion · 06-02-2020, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Your not thin skin at all, you just don't have a complete perspective. I never meant to demean people who that have or use support dogs, cats or horses as the benefits are huge. I was purely stating the lawful difference between the two. Support animals exist because there a reason many of us have "pets" so those in the behavioral mental health field recognized the benefits of owning a pet and gave it a name to help people that would benefit from having a companion that provides unconditional love. We are in total agreement surrounding that.

That said if you own service animal, support animal or pet. I am with Jar it needs to be under control at all times.

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It’s a lot more than unconditional love tho, there is a service being rendered when for example, Someone gets overwhelmed bc of too much info to process and their tbi, ptsd, brain lesions, neurodegenerative issues overwhelmn them and their dog is able to keep them from hurting themselves, or someone else. In that moment, the dog is no different than an antipsychotic or mood stabilizer or cognitive behavioral therapy. But that is classified as an emotional support animal, really that’s about as much of a service dog as you can get, helps with disease/injury and improves persons quality of life.

We all a agree that there is no free pass for a poorly behaved animal regardless of it’s official or unofficial status and that includes the human owners too.

My issue is that what qualifies an individual for having a service dog is too narrow sometimes, it’s not just seizures, blindness, paralysis aka the obvious ones, that’s all.

JARblue · 06-02-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Jar, I think you’re missing spoolers point. We all dislike cheaters, but if you see someone with a support dog you usually can’t just tell who’s legit and whose a cheater so you Nd up hating on both the good and the bad.

I'm not missing the point. I'm just pointing out that I don't have to identify the person to dislike their actions. I don't look at people in the airport and get pissed because I think they are lying about their service animal. In truth, IDGAF what they do if it doesn't disturb me or others. But I can still be against the idea of being disingenuous to make money off someone trying to deceive a business.

Hotrodz is spot on. My primary issue with these people is their animals are often ill-behaved. At that point, IDGAF if your dog is a service animal or not - if it's being disruptive in public, I'm going to think you're a disrespectful jerkass, and even more so if you lied about your service animal.

madwi · 06-02-2020, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Jar, I think you’re missing spoolers point. We all dislike cheaters, but if you see someone with a support dog you usually can’t just tell who’s legit and whose a cheater so you Nd up hating on both the good and the bad.

There ought to be a way to be able to at least cut down on the cheaters but I honestly don’t have any ideas off the top of my head.

When they claim the damn emu is a support animal I just dont buy it!

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