Used to, but it's more convenient just to buy when it comes to cheap 9mm. I save the brass, though, if times ever get lean.

Good move. I've even dabbled in smelting and casting lead. Pretty easy. For a while there primers became real hard to find. Thats the only weak point when it comes to times getting lean. Make sure you stock up on primers.

You would be amazed at how many people cannot keep them on PAPER at the 15 yard line. No, I know plenty of cops that can shoot quite well. It just amazes me that I know any that don't shoot even adequately, much less that freely admit that all they care about is qualification every so often/don't know what caliber their weapon is. It's like if I were incapable of properly titrating cardiac drips. I could not function at my job if I could not use the IV pumps, etc.

LE has a lot on their plate, yes, but so do others that shoot well. I condense my 40+ hour work weeks into 3-4 days, so that does give me the unique chance to shoot more, as I have half the week off, sometimes the big half, sometimes the little. It alternates.

Yep. I am planning on stocking up on AR-15 lowers and bolt-carrier groups, as well at some point when I have spare cash. Those were going for stupid prices when Obama won.

I see the USP45 is a favorite. I like the USP45 and the HK45, but both are very large handguns compared to others on the list. If the OP just wants something for the night-stand, that's cool, but for carry, that could be less comfortable than one of the more compact models listed. Just something to consider, depending on the use of the weapon.

Right. The Gun Shows were insane after the election! It almost looked like people were prepping for a zombie infection. :)

This is just my opion but if your going to buy a hand gun for carry and home defense.Get a .45 I love the 1911 but they are pricy.The best thing you can do is find a range that rents and try as many diff ones that you can and go with what fells the best in your hand.Or if you know people with a variety of hand guns see if you can go with them to a range. Don't let ammo prices make your decision if you end up loving shooting and want to go a lot start saving brass and reload. I don't know a lot about the laws where your from but look into them. I am lucky and live in the most liberal gun state in the us. When you get a cc here it is good in 28 other staes as well. We also have no restricions on types of ammo or magazine capacities.You can actually cc in a vehicle here loaded and racked with out having a cc. Just do your research and once you make your decision practice practice practice espically with trigger pull.

I have gone on a Jihad after the 1911, and after owning a LesBaer TRS that sucked (Workmanship was CRAP! I have never seen a rougher 1911, and can post pix if you want), and a Wilson Tactical Supergrade that sucked (2 warranty return trips and a buy-back), I feel qualified to say that the 1911 just isn't as reliable as the other handguns I have owned. Oh, I tore ragged 1" holes in the targets with them, that's for sure. There were just long-pauses between the shots sometimes, and other times they would horizontally string when my Wilson's rear-sight would loosen up and begin drifting (Wilson finally got it right the 3rd time by installing their old design hand-fit. You would THINK hand-fit rear sight would be something that came standard on a $4200 pistol...but no.)

Sorry. Sound bitter? $6500 later. I am. The 1911 just ain't for me, and I try to steer others around it as well, right or wrong.

Have you thought about an LA CCW permit? Good in something like 40 or 42 states IIRC. No caliber, etc. restrictions.

On that note, I like Gold-Dots, HST, and the T-series. I also like the Barnes round. I think Federal is going to begin (have they already?) loading it in handgun rounds for LE soon. I know Corbon and Black Hills already do, but I like the ATK/Olin ammo mfr. groups.

Models, weight, ratings, popularity, and price.
Pistol Reviews Forum and Reference Guide at GunDirectory.com

bump

I think most everyone has said their piece on the subject. Now go test-drive some of the suggestions and see what YOU like.

I think you need to get to a range and first learn some basic principles of firing a handgun. Than try several weapons to find something that you enjoy and can handle. With that said, I say go with the biggest round you can handle and for your use.

Personally I have a Glock 23 (.40S&W) and a Glock 36 (.45ACP). I conceal carry both depending on my needs.

will do this weekend probly

Be safe and have fun!

always

Voted for the XD-9 but the XD-M-45 is were its at :)



DAN

Lots of ranges rent guns. Ask the guys at the shop what they have to rent that's also a good home defense gun. I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions, but that's to be expected.

Listen carefully to how you should handle a gun safely. Rules are important in this aspect. Forget what you see on tv. Leave the ego at the door. Throw out any bad habits if you've ever handled a gun and think you know what you're doing. :D

25mm(off topic, but this is one hell of a gun)
U.S. Army Unveils 'Revolutionary' XM25 Rifle in Afghanistan - FoxNews.com

From your list I've shot the the:
Sig P220
Springfield XD-9 (also shot the XD-45)
Glock 17

Of the three, I really enjoyed the XD-9 (actually the XD-45 the most). I have big hands and found the Glock a bit small. Of the Sig P220 and Springfield XD-45, I felt that the XD had less recoil and was more comfortable to shoot.

If I had to get a home defense handgun, it would be a XD-45. It packs more stopping power than the 9mm and I didn't feel much of a difference in terms of recoil. Check out the XDm's they are nicer than the regular XD's and would pick one up in a heartbeat if California allowed them.

what one u carry?

California, it's not easy to get a CCW, if at all! This is one of the most gun unfriendly states in the union! Lots and lots of gun related laws!

i bet

I'll be getting a Springfield XDm myself here shortly.

Gonna pick it up then get my Concealed permit next month. It's also good in 40 other states for 5 years. :tup:

I currently own an AR-15 and I'm in the market for a handgun. And as others have pointed out, this won't be carried. I've been testing out a few of my friend's and the range's handguns. So far I've shot the these:
Colt 1911 Mark IV
Springfield 1911
Sig P220
XD-9
XD-45 4" service model
XD-45 5" tactical model
Glock 17
H&K 9mm USP
S&W 357 Revolver

Of the group I really liked XD-45 service model for it's accuracy, size, capacity and ergonomics, this will probably be the gun I pull trigger on (no pun intended). My boss' Colt 1911 MK IV was the smoothest .45, but I'm not a fan of the 7 round magazine capacity and size.

S&W .500

Nuff' said. :owned:

Oh...for home? Glock.

ah

Didn't read all 10 pages, but I have two Smith and Wesson M&Ps in 9mm and they have been flawless.

Plenty of good guns out there, pick what you like. I own 2 Sig P-Series pistols, 2 HK USP's, 6 or 7 Glocks, a Beretta 92FS, Colt Pythons, custom Colt 1911's, a Benelli M4, and lots of other stuff. I have a CCW, have been a shooter for a decade, and taken several courses on close quarters defensive pistol shooting. I prefer Glock over anything else for serious defensive use due to simplicity, short trigger reset, weight, and capacity. I carry a Glock 23 and keep a Glock 21SF with an X300 weapon light by my bed (along with the Benelli M4). If someone claims something is better than a Glock, I've either shot it or I own it. I think that once you take a multi-day course or two you'll really appreciate the Glock design over something more glamorous that impresses people at the range. I keep other guns because I love variety, Pythons are beautiful, and I love to shoot high end 1911's... but I choose Glock as a defensive tool.

This is a repost that I have done before. Since there are members looking into buying a gun, and are new to guns! You may not be aware of these laws! "Please read them"! They will keep you out of trouble with the law! "Break them and you will loose your guns and your 2nd Amendment rights for "Life"!
The first one is a California law, but every state has one that is similar. The wiki, Lautenberg gun ban=No guns for life!
------------------------------------------------
273.5. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a person who is
his or her spouse, former spouse, cohabitant, former cohabitant, or
the mother or father of his or her child, corporal injury resulting
in a traumatic condition, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not more than one
year, or by a fine of up to six thousand dollars ($6,000) or by both
that fine and imprisonment.
(b) Holding oneself out to be the husband or wife of the person
with whom one is cohabiting is not necessary to constitute
cohabitation as the term is used in this section.
(c) As used in this section, "traumatic condition" means a
condition of the body, such as a wound or external or internal
injury, whether of a minor or serious nature, caused by a physical
force.
(d) For the purpose of this section, a person shall be considered
the father or mother of another person's child if the alleged male
parent is presumed the natural father under Sections 7611 and 7612 of
the Family Code.
(e) (1) Any person convicted of violating this section for acts
occurring within seven years of a previous conviction under
subdivision (a), or subdivision (d) of Section 243, or Section 243.4,
244, 244.5, or 245, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail for not more than one year, or by imprisonment in the state
prison for two, four, or five years, or by both imprisonment and a
fine of up to ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(2) Any person convicted of a violation of this section for acts
occurring within seven years of a previous conviction under
subdivision (e) of Section 243 shall be punished by imprisonment in
the state prison for two, three, or four years, or in a county jail
for not more than one year, or by a fine of up to ten thousand
dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(f) If probation is granted to any person convicted under
subdivision (a), the court shall impose probation consistent with the
provisions of Section 1203.097.
(g) If probation is granted, or the execution or imposition of a
sentence is suspended, for any defendant convicted under subdivision
(a) who has been convicted of any prior offense specified in
subdivision (e), the court shall impose one of the following
conditions of probation:
(1) If the defendant has suffered one prior conviction within the
previous seven years for a violation of any offense specified in
subdivision (e), it shall be a condition thereof, in addition to the
provisions contained in Section 1203.097, that he or she be
imprisoned in a county jail for not less than 15 days.
(2) If the defendant has suffered two or more prior convictions
within the previous seven years for a violation of any offense
specified in subdivision (e), it shall be a condition of probation,
in addition to the provisions contained in Section 1203.097, that he
or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than 60 days.
(3) The court, upon a showing of good cause, may find that the
mandatory imprisonment required by this subdivision shall not be
imposed and shall state on the record its reasons for finding good
cause.
(h) If probation is granted upon conviction of a violation of
subdivision (a), the conditions of probation may include, consistent
with the terms of probation imposed pursuant to Section 1203.097, in
lieu of a fine, one or both of the following requirements:
(1) That the defendant make payments to a battered women's
shelter, up to a maximum of five thousand dollars ($5,000), pursuant
to Section 1203.097.
(2) That the defendant reimburse the victim for reasonable costs
of counseling and other reasonable expenses that the court finds are
the direct result of the defendant's offense.
For any order to pay a fine, make payments to a battered women's
shelter, or pay restitution as a condition of probation under this
subdivision, the court shall make a determination of the defendant's
ability to pay. In no event shall any order to make payments to a
battered women's shelter be made if it would impair the ability of
the defendant to pay direct restitution to the victim or
court-ordered child support. Where the injury to a married person is
caused in whole or in part by the criminal acts of his or her spouse
in violation of this section, the community property may not be used
to discharge the liability of the offending spouse for restitution to
the injured spouse, required by Section 1203.04, as operative on or
before August 2, 1995, or Section 1202.4, or to a shelter for costs
with regard to the injured spouse and dependents, required by this
section, until all separate property of the offending spouse is
exhausted.
(i) Upon conviction under subdivision (a), the sentencing court
shall also consider issuing an order restraining the defendant from
any contact with the victim, which may be valid for up to 10 years,
as determined by the court. It is the intent of the Legislature that
the length of any restraining order be based upon the seriousness of
the facts before the court, the probability of future violations, and
the safety of the victim and his or her immediate family. This
protective order may be issued by the court whether the defendant is
sentenced to state prison, county jail, or if imposition of sentence
is suspended and the defendant is placed on probation.

------------
Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

------------

This is funny cause I agree 100%. I more often carry my Glock 36 and have the Glock 23 with a SigSauer STL-900 Tactical Light & Laser. I looking to invest in the Benelli M4 as well for home defense.

For those that don't know how simple the Glocks are. Below is a picture I took after I completely broke down my Glock 36. That's it. And both fire every time right from the box. No break in time like some. Yes I'm a little bias to Glocks but they work and proven themselves over and over again.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...9_831405_n.jpg

All of the guns you listed are capable of 1-2.5" groups at 25 yards. If you shoot one more accurately than the other, it's because you find it easier to hold/sqeeze the trigger on/sights more to your liking/whatever. That is the gun you should go with as your body and mind clearly seem to prefer it.

Just my .02, but buy what YOU shoot best, not what others say is best/looks coolest on COD4, etc.

I sold a Tactical Supergrade 1911 back to wilson because it wasn't reliable after 2 warranty return trips for various things within 2 weeks of ownership. I have never had to call Glock for a warranty issue like the sights shooting loose and wobbling around or the weapon failing to feed the last round with multiple new Glock magazines. Want that? Buy a 1911. Not for me.

The Benelli M4 is an awesome weapon. Are you tired of the junk OEM rail tearing up QD optics like LaRue? Tired of the junk OEM tube? I am friends with a guy who has beat both problems with VERY high QC parts. My friend Greg and I were the ones who put him to making that pic. rail, and ironically, I sold my M4 for $1100+ a G19 w/OEM Trijicons abotu 2 weeks before he completed the project. They are 7075 and type III ano. This guy spares no expense or QC measure and developes what he is asked to develop if enough people ask and it is feasible. The highest quality part on my M4 was the Ti tube he made. IIRC, he holds all his stuff on that tube to aerospace tolerance (+-.0001").
Home Page

You might be in for a wait, on some items, but he always delivers and only charges right before shipping. He's nearly a 1-man machine shop, so sometimes there are delays as you might imagine. Last I checked he said he was taking care of that, but he puts QC, etc. above snappy delivery times.

I love HK's as well. I just prefer to carry the G19 I have and my P226 is my range toy. I wanted a replacement for the Wilson and a GGI worked P226 Elite ST in 357SIG fit the bill. Same accuracy, almost 2x the capacity.

I used to own a Wilson CQB that was flawless, but I had a polymer frame KZ45 that was the worst gun I ever owned.

I have a Springfield Professional FBI model, a Springfield Custom Shop "Custom Carry", and my two custom Colt Commanders (and my old Colt Defender that I sold) were all built by Springfield Custom. They do excellent custom work at reasonable prices. They also did custom work on one of my Les Baer TRS models, and they built a custom TRP for me.

I tried to send them a pile of Glocks to install Heine sights, but I think they actually laughed at that request!

I got stuck with a TRS once, too. Les Baer ranks a step below HiPoint in my book. Workman-ship, wise, anyway. Here is a picture of my (formerly) hard-chrome (from LB) TRS, or as I like to call it "Tool of Recycled Slag">

http://i53.tinypic.com/2i0cac7.jpg

I all but gave that pistol away. 1911's were great back in the day, but it's like going back to points ignition when we have direct ignition. When nearly 5K can't buy me one that runs 500 rounds down the tube without a jam, I don't want it. Give me a Glock. I want something that goes "bang". not "....wait for it...oh ****! It's jammed...again."

I had two TRS's. One was a basic blued CA-certified model with the hideous front cocking serrations. Springfield Custom did a smoother carry bevel on it, installed Heine Slant Pros, recrowned the barrel, straightened the lines and feed ramp, and refinished in Black-T.

The other was a custom order hard chrome with no front cocking serrations that I pulled some strings to get into CA from Les Baer.

Both were great guns. Well finished, accurate, 100% reliable. I only sold them, like the CQB and the Ed Brown Kobra Carry, because I prefer to spec my own custom 1911's. I'm really picky about features I want, and how I want them done.

Aside from the horrible KZ45, all my 1911's have been 100% reliable with any ammo. I carried a custom Colt Defender that was flawless as well, even in the much-maligned Officer's size.

My TRS's were on par with anything else and I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a semicustom 1911 at a reasonable price. They have a great reputation and I think you got a lemon, unfortunately. It happens.

hmmm

How is it possible that my TRS was a lemon when it was hand-assembled? That kind of stuff just was overlooked as LB didn't care. It HAD TO have been seen. Pure junk.

Lemons happen far more often in the 1911 world than in the Glock world. I have yet to own a Glock that was a lemon. The only 2 1911's I owned were lemons. One was Wilson Combat's top model, the other was Les Baer's TRS. Neither were reliable. Neither were what I would consider well made, as the Baer had FTRB's well past the 500 round mark, and that is after I slurried the action with CLP and JB Bore-paste to try to loosen it up. The Wilson's rear-sight came loose twice, the ejecting shells chipped the Armor-tuff off down to the base parkerizing, and when they tuned it so it wouldn't do that, it wouldn't feed the last round from Wilson 47D's about 10% of the time.

Sorry, my Glock's have a great finish, the sights don't come off, and they don't jam all the time.

I used to be the biggest tuperware hater in town and loved the 1911 to death, but then I spent more on 1911's than I did on my daily driver, and they all just sucked, whereas my Glock experience has been boring. That is to say, it always hits right where I point it, never jams unless you seriously limp-wrist it, and in general, just does what it is supposed to do---accurately and reliably deliver the bullet where you want. Every time. All the time.

The ammo used in the LesBaer that caused FTRB's was anything I had, JHP's, 230gr American Eagle, shot pretty much anything on hand in it.

The Wilson kept choking on Ranger T-series 230gr. I was TRYING to make it 500 rounds with this to ensure it was reliable. I even sent it to Wilson to zero the weapon with and they pronounced that the round was reliable in the gun and saw no reason why it shouldn't be a good choice. It was not the nose that hung up but the case-rim binding between the extractor an breech-face. It was either that, or accept that I will have all my finish chipped off on the top of the slide on a $4400 pistol. no thanks. I picked "buy this junk back, please", and got my custom SIG (2X the capacity, shoots 1.17" 5-shot groups CTC at 25 yards with Gold Dots, and never jams). The trigger on it after Torie worked it over is about a 8/10 with the WIlson's trigger being a 10/10. Fit/finish on the Wilson was a big better, but both are "tight" (don't rattle when shaken HARD), and the QPQ finish on my SIG is far superior to the Armor-Tuff, which got it's first scratch down to the metal when the FFL dealer gently clipped the nylon cord in the trigger/gard with some scissors, lol. Horrible finish. Chipped/removed by ejected casings. Fail.

I just don't see ANY advantage to a 1911 over a SIG. Both are big chunks of solid steel (if that is what you want) for a range/bedside pistol.

The 1911 is an excellent model and "highly reliable"! One "lemon" 1911, does not destroy the reliability of the tens of thousands that have been produced!

Anyone owns the HK Socom MK23 model?

:iagree: