Lets talk science, Stillen Gen3 Intake

Super Werty

Something you maybe didnt know...

The K&N oil is petroleum based. aFe oil is not. AFE oil is very different and causes much less problems related to the oil coming off of the filter/getting on the MAF sensor.

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critical

yeah 'real people' to conduct scientific tests on flow rate and efficiency haha

they test. K&N Engineering Air Filtration Efficiency Testing Protocol

where are their results?

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phunk

What is the end game? How do you know that an intake has left no room for improvement?

Perhaps an extremely high resolution pressure transducer sampling manifold pressure and pressure just outside the throttle plates? I must assume that if you are achieving atmospheric pressure in your samples, there couldn't really be room for improvement other than colder/denser air.

With so many other factors that cause power readings to vary from pull to pull, it seems like anyone judging an intake by 1-2hp is doing themselves a disservice. It seems that you would want to isolate the results of the intake alone to know for sure.

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Sh0velMan

FWIW, I went with some bigass "Green Filters". I have the gut feeling that they are flowing better than the dry filters that came with my intakes, based on what I see on the dyno, but no data to back it up. They look cool tho.

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H2O_Doc

Haven't there been at least a few independent comparisons? I remember one on the NICO webpage and a couple more elsewhere. It strikes me as odd that things like this are still somewhat ambiguous. There is almost a Sasquatch mystique to figuring out what, if any, horsepower gains various mods provide. Not a criticism, just an observation.

As I've said elsewhere, my MAZOC sticker has been repeatedly documented as providing +50 hp, and my dual 12" subs add another 27 hp.

w0rM

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w0rM

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Jordo!

The longer tubes most likely have nothing to do with it.

Better flowing cone filters, pipes air in from outside car. Short rams that were COMPLETELY shielded like the factory airboxes should work just as well, but there's really nothing like that.

Bigger diameter tubes (with MAF sensor re-calibration to allow for the difference in voltage readings) should make more power, but I was under the impression that the Stillen's were OEM diameter (I could be mistaken on this...)

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synolimit

I don't care about science really. I care about dynos and analysis samples from Joe Shmow. That's good enough for me. I'm making 295/244 untuned. That's good enough for me filter wise. Unless a filter catches more and adds 10hp I'm good with a K&N.

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13 370z-

DEpointfive0

^Mighty car mods... Sorry, those guys are retards...


CAI on an intercooled car almost defeats the purpose, I agree, all you're beating is less restriction... And the other car is a POS

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luigi90210

well it does help out a little bit but in the end you are right, with an intercooler it doesnt matter where you draw the air in from
they have a pod filter episode as well and it shows pod filters dont flow any more than pannel filters

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synolimit

Lol the stillen doesn't trick the ecu, AEM does with the electric box they give you which is garbage. Doesn't matter the filter or the pipe size with the stillen, the MAF sees what it sees, period. The stillen isn't bigger or that really matters say you said 0.04" is nothing. Both are 2.5" OD, just depends how thick the material is which will change the ID but not enough to measure MAF scale or HP wise.


I agree with it does help coming from a certain point and not with it doesn't matter. If it didn't matter than having the radiator running in the summer would produce the same temps as in the winter. We're only talking about 20-40 degrees maybe difference but you can see big temp swings. Keeping the compressor housings as cool as possible will increase results. A cai even in a turbo car will be better than a sri in the engine bay.

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13 370z-

luigi90210

well with a tune, you rescale the MAF so it accounts for the extra air but you can also add some timing where the stock tune wouldnt have before and you can keep AFRs more consistent under WOT

the stillen intakes make much less power(closer 9whp) with a tune after everything but if you are talking about your only mod, its gonna make all that power because its being leaned out mechanically

the stillen does trick the computer, just not to the extent other intakes do, the stillen is 2.5in intake tubes with a taper down section to 2.38in(or something like that) also i never said AEM intakes were good, just that it didnt fool the MAF mechanically like the other intakes(it does it like SAFC did back in the day), plus i hear good things about the AEM intake, and with it being 2.75in straight through, you always get better flow than an intake that tapers down at the maf section

also i dont know where you are going with the radiator thing, but a cold air intake on a turbo might help the turbo produce 1psi more, if you're lucky

if you were shooting for the highest HP number on the dyno, a CAI on a turbo car might get you there, but for the most part its a waste of money, you'll get more power from an intercooler swap than you would a CAI

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synolimit

You don't have to rescale the Stillen's as they are almost 100% the same ID as OEM.

I'm sorry but again it doesn't trick the ecu. The smoother flow and better filter increase the G/sec flow rate the MAF sees. As it increases, the MAF and ecu correct the AFR. There is no trick. Its just doing its job for better AFR and power. It's still not 100% optimal as its on the rich side (12.4-11.9 on my car) but its good enough to still stay safe and add power. This is why stillen uses OEM size MAF housing. There is also no taper. They just use a 3" filter to 2.5" OD pipe. So yes there's a taper but that doesn't matter as its only 3 inches long and it's no where near the MAF housing. The whole thing is the same size at 2.5" OD, same as OEM.

You don't get good results with the AEM. Tricking the ecu is garbage and to tune out that trick is garbage. I've seen it personally make a car have less hp then stock because of it. On a NA car you are no where near maxing out the MAF volts with the OEM size. There's no need to go bigger pipe and be forced to rescale the MAF. In fact have a bigger pipe will yield no results as you were forced to rescale the larger pipe back down to OEM size, the ecu will think it has OEM size again. Pulling in say 2 volts passed the MAF in 2.75" piping will give you the same g/sec vs pulling in 4 volts in 2.5" piping. Its a NA car. There is no forced induction. The car can only suck in air that its able to. Once tuned with timing and mods you're done.

I was getting to that keeping the compressor cooler with cooler air is always better. Bringing in 60 degree ambient temp vs 200 engine bay temps will always add HP! Doesn't matter if it has a intercooler or not. Starting at a lower charged temp vs a higher one will yield in a cold side intercooler with cooler denser temps. On my cars colder air didn't add psi as I was ecu and waste gate psi controlled, but using your example "you may get 1 more psi," I don't know about you but my turbos psi ran me 15-20 more HP!!! I'll take that all day long to put the filter in a cai vs a sri.

But if you already have a IC you're not going to buy another one. And again it does make a difference no matter the IC! If its 60 degrees out, a compressor is 250 degrees, that mix goes through the IC, and out the other side pops out 65 degrees it makes a huge difference vs you put the filter in the engine bay where its 200 degrees, the compressor is again 250 degrees, that mixes and goes through the IC and out pops 90 degrees this time. 30 degree intake temps is huge in HP! I've seen 20-30 HP swings playing with this stuff on my WRX's while tuning them.

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13 370z-

Honesty

The stock intake is not optimized for flow and only flow. It is designed to quiet the sound of intake air and to prevent the vehicle from sucking in water into the combustion chamber.

The reason why aftermarket cold air intakes increase horsepower (which is just flow) is because they have fewer restrictions and allow for a higher amount of cfms to come through the pipe than the factory snorkel/filter. One has a more focused purpose, which it accomplishes.

The length of the tube is overall the same or only slightly longer than the factory intake, but it is straighter, wider, and simpler. As a result, air flows through it more easily. Therefore the vacuum in front of the intake valves draws in more air.

Length isn't the ONLY factor here. The overall design of the factory intake is not optimized for flow. That's the problem.

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