Is it really worth putting a Cold Air Intake on 370z and what HP gains

gsxr750 · 01-22-2012, 03:03 PM

Can anyone provide a baseline before and after dyno charts for just the CAI alone, with the K/N typhoon or other similar kits. If these kits even provide a 5-6 hp increase such a small power increase is almost unable to be detected in the seat of the pants. Example a 5-6 hp increase only gives you .0018 hp/lb (3260 lbs 370z) and that takes into account the hp is the same across the entire rev. range. Such a small hp increase would not even be noticed except in a top speed, dyno run or 1/4mile drag in very small numbers. Usually it takes a lot more HP gains to really be felt on the street or normal driving example 25-50 HP gains.

Even on the bikes with a 5hp on the bikes isn't really noticed and your dealing with a 450lb bike and 200 lb rider for 650 lb total 5 hp increase = .0076 hp/lb compared to 370z (.0018 hp/lb)

To really feel the extra power of a substantial HP power increase, you need large amounts of HP/lbs of weight. example stock harley 883cc sportster puts out around 38 BHP stock and the simple install of larger 1/2" pistons makes it a 1200cc bike and gives you 65-70 bhp almost doubling the felt HP and it comes down to a 35 hp increase or .053 hp/lb increase compared to the .0018 hp/lb increase for the 370Z.

I would agree that a more substantial hp gains can be achieved if you were to completely remove the stock exhaust system and intake system and go with a full length header and exhaust combo and a racing ram air intake system, but you really can't run this type of system on the street, unless the car is an old muscle car excempt from smog testing.

What a lot of young drivers don't really know is that most of these bolt on HP kits, don't really provide any real world HP gains and are really just shiny bolt or louder muffers that give the driver a feeling of a power increase when they are really only sensing the louder noise as they accellerate.

Heres another example of a real world power increase in the 80's chevy came out with the 262 cu in V6 for their full size trucks, it probably made around 180 hp. I had a short bed 2 wheel drive 4 speed manual 262 cu in motor. With a stop watch the truck did 1-60 in 13 seconds (stock) after using a saws all removing the cat and stock muffer and replacing the aircleaner with a large filter housing from a 1960's style car and a dual cherry bomb exhaust, note the truck came with tubular steel stock headers that flowed pretty well. End result was that the truck did 0-60 10sec that and gas mileage went from 17mpg - 22 mpg highway. When I sold the truck I put everything back stock and once again timed it and it dropped to 13-14 sec for 0-60 once again. Note at resale no one wanted to buy a noisy moddified car or truck, used car buyers like everything left stock.

Felix 808 · 01-22-2012, 03:15 PM

From Stillens web site http://www.stillen.com/product_files/402852~dyno.pdf

gsxr750 · 01-22-2012, 08:01 PM

if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

4r3s · 01-23-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

That was the same conclusion I came to. I think the cai kits are around $500 though not $1k. Still not worth it unless you are out to try and squeeze every single possible horse you can out of the motor. And if thats the case you should be thinking turbos/supercharger...

sfearl1 · 01-23-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4r3s

That was the same conclusion I came to. I think the cai kits are around $500 though not $1k. Still not worth it unless you are out to try and squeeze every single possible horse you can out of the motor. And if thats the case you should be thinking turbos/supercharger...

gsxr750 · 01-23-2012, 01:29 PM

Turbo's work great when new, but after the mileage gets past 50K, they usually need replacement, due to impeller or bearing problems and even carbon build up.

They also put a lot of stress on the motor, they are good for racing apllications , but not that good for driving your car to high mileage standards.

I had an older 85 z turbo that had the turbo replaced 3 times in 40K miles, according to the original owners reciepts. I drove for about 10k and sold it.
Better to go with CUBIC INCHES or Stroking a motor as compared to turbo etc.

Threadlocker · 08-26-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

Turbo's work great when new, but after the mileage gets past 50K, they usually need replacement, due to impeller or bearing problems and even carbon build up.

They also put a lot of stress on the motor, they are good for racing apllications , but not that good for driving your car to high mileage standards.

I had an older 85 z turbo that had the turbo replaced 3 times in 40K miles, according to the original owners reciepts. I drove for about 10k and sold it.
Better to go with CUBIC INCHES or Stroking a motor as compared to turbo etc.

I had a 1983 280zx turbo that never had turbo problems. Ran for 243k, 100k was spent at 8PSI on the stock turbo (Garret TB03) with intake (K&N custom CAI) and exhaust (custom DP-back 3" mandrel bent).

I had a 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo with 212k when I sold her after running 70k on the stock CT-26 turbo at 12-13psi. K&N cone intake, Lexus MAF, 3" mandrel bent DP-back. I never had any turbo problems and the most extensive repairs I ever did on the car was replacing the headgasket on the 7mgte.

I don't believe the reliability or the longevity of the motors of these vehicles were compromised by the K&N filter or modifying the turbos. Both of those cars were overboosted and ran that way for over 50k. If there was a drop in power, it's possible I didn't feel it, but the track numbers didn't change, and they certainly didn't get replaced.

And just for an apples to apples story - my brother had a 1986 300zx turbo - he ran it with K&N/Exaust under ~9psi (T3) for about 5 years before he wrecked it. Yes, the turbo was salvagable.

When you talk about "turbos", which turbos are you talking about and for what engines? How much psi? Nothing you said about turbos reflects my personal experience, nor did I get that impression from the people at zcar.com or supraforums.com who also do turbo builds. Where is all this coming from?

Pelican170 · 01-23-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

and also dont forget, numbers shrink a bunch once other bolt ons are added (exhaust, HFC's or TP's...)

alcheng · 01-23-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

There's some gains on the paper, but in reality, I think it's more hp gain in your mind than on the wheel.

Baer383 · 01-23-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

There's some gains on the paper, but in reality, I think it's more hp gain in your mind than on the wheel.

If it's on paper then how the hell can it be just in your mind.

elmz · 01-24-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

If it's on paper then how the hell can it be just in your mind.

Haha true. I'm in the boat of drop-ins and tubes though, and it would be great if we had dyno results for these. I'm really curious if they yield similar results for less than half the cost of CAI's.

alcheng · 01-23-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

There's some gains on the paper, but in reality, I think it's more hp gain in your mind than on the wheel.

'More', not 'All'.

That couple extra horses at the top end and the louder engine note, make you 'think' the car is much faster, that's what I mean.

Baer383 · 01-23-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

'More', not 'All'.

That couple extra horses at the top end and the louder engine note, make you 'think' the car is much faster, that's what I mean.

The noise my engine makes doesn't make it seem louder or faster,the 305hp at the tire handle that all by themselves.

Snakes709 · 01-22-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix 808

From Stillens web site http://www.stillen.com/product_files/402852~dyno.pdf

ahh, nothing like a high reading dyno..lol.

chippyflava · 08-26-2012, 01:32 PM

I installed AEM ETI CAIs with a Stillen CBE. The filters are DRYFLOW and do not need to be oiled. I had a AEM BruteForce intake with dry filters on my Titan and it really performed well. The filters are placed right in front of each tire, behind the fender liner, and if you punch/Dremel out the two small plastic panels on each side your grill, the filters are about 8 in. to each side of the opening. Huge air flow. Since the openings are so close to the filters they also have water repellent covers you can purchase for about 35 bucks each. I purchased these as well and suggest them if anybody were to open up those areas.

AEM provides a DYNO chart on a '09 Z with these intakes that show a 9.67 HP gain.

01-22-2012, 03:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 15	Can anyone provide a baseline before and after dyno charts for just the CAI alone, with the K/N typhoon or other similar kits. If these kits even provide a 5-6 hp increase such a small power increase is almost unable to be detected in the seat of the pants. Example a 5-6 hp increase only gives you .0018 hp/lb (3260 lbs 370z) and that takes into account the hp is the same across the entire rev. range. Such a small hp increase would not even be noticed except in a top speed, dyno run or 1/4mile drag in very small numbers. Usually it takes a lot more HP gains to really be felt on the street or normal driving example 25-50 HP gains. Even on the bikes with a 5hp on the bikes isn't really noticed and your dealing with a 450lb bike and 200 lb rider for 650 lb total 5 hp increase = .0076 hp/lb compared to 370z (.0018 hp/lb) To really feel the extra power of a substantial HP power increase, you need large amounts of HP/lbs of weight. example stock harley 883cc sportster puts out around 38 BHP stock and the simple install of larger 1/2" pistons makes it a 1200cc bike and gives you 65-70 bhp almost doubling the felt HP and it comes down to a 35 hp increase or .053 hp/lb increase compared to the .0018 hp/lb increase for the 370Z. I would agree that a more substantial hp gains can be achieved if you were to completely remove the stock exhaust system and intake system and go with a full length header and exhaust combo and a racing ram air intake system, but you really can't run this type of system on the street, unless the car is an old muscle car excempt from smog testing. What a lot of young drivers don't really know is that most of these bolt on HP kits, don't really provide any real world HP gains and are really just shiny bolt or louder muffers that give the driver a feeling of a power increase when they are really only sensing the louder noise as they accellerate. Heres another example of a real world power increase in the 80's chevy came out with the 262 cu in V6 for their full size trucks, it probably made around 180 hp. I had a short bed 2 wheel drive 4 speed manual 262 cu in motor. With a stop watch the truck did 1-60 in 13 seconds (stock) after using a saws all removing the cat and stock muffer and replacing the aircleaner with a large filter housing from a 1960's style car and a dual cherry bomb exhaust, note the truck came with tubular steel stock headers that flowed pretty well. End result was that the truck did 0-60 10sec that and gas mileage went from 17mpg - 22 mpg highway. When I sold the truck I put everything back stock and once again timed it and it dropped to 13-14 sec for 0-60 once again. Note at resale no one wanted to buy a noisy moddified car or truck, used car buyers like everything left stock. Last edited by gsxr750; 01-22-2012 at 03:12 PM.

01-22-2012, 03:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Felix 808 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 1,063 Drives: 2011 PW/Grey T/S 7AT Rep Power: 2808	From Stillens web site http://www.stillen.com/product_files/402852~dyno.pdf __________________ Semper Fi Μολὼν λαβέ

01-23-2012, 01:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 15	Turbo's work great when new, but after the mileage gets past 50K, they usually need replacement, due to impeller or bearing problems and even carbon build up. They also put a lot of stress on the motor, they are good for racing apllications , but not that good for driving your car to high mileage standards. I had an older 85 z turbo that had the turbo replaced 3 times in 40K miles, according to the original owners reciepts. I drove for about 10k and sold it. Better to go with CUBIC INCHES or Stroking a motor as compared to turbo etc. Stright_Drop likes this. Last edited by gsxr750; 01-23-2012 at 01:31 PM.

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01-22-2012, 08:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 15	if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

08-26-2012, 01:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
chippyflava Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 17 Drives: '11 370z BS M6 Rep Power: 15	I installed AEM ETI CAIs with a Stillen CBE. The filters are DRYFLOW and do not need to be oiled. I had a AEM BruteForce intake with dry filters on my Titan and it really performed well. The filters are placed right in front of each tire, behind the fender liner, and if you punch/Dremel out the two small plastic panels on each side your grill, the filters are about 8 in. to each side of the opening. Huge air flow. Since the openings are so close to the filters they also have water repellent covers you can purchase for about 35 bucks each. I purchased these as well and suggest them if anybody were to open up those areas. AEM provides a DYNO chart on a '09 Z with these intakes that show a 9.67 HP gain.