Intakes... are they ALL just a scam?

Glokwork · 07-14-2011, 04:50 PM

From what I understand lets say the g3's claim 16whp and that's your first mod, you may reach that. FI TDX claims around 22whp and you add that next, you're not gonna see a 16whp gain and then another 22whp gain. So on and so forth from each future mod, at least that's what's been explained to me, I could be wrong about that but just trying to help with some of the confusion of whp gains people have gotten from the same mod.

shadoquad · 07-14-2011, 05:03 PM

It's not a scam. It's just how engines breathe. I'm not technical enough to explain it, but the advertised hp gains are noted against a stock setup, assuming all other parts are factory. When combining the parts, they do not simply stack those hp numbers, because both parts effect how the engine breathes.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-14-2011, 05:04 PM

From what I've read, I think usually for most combinations of intake/exhaust/HFC or TP/tune there's around a 30 whp gain. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Methodical4u · 07-14-2011, 05:51 PM

I was trying to find some actual numbers for the R2C's, but there's nothing. It does look like quite a solid design and a very nice fitment.

However as said... there's no real numbers on it.

christian370z · 07-14-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

so.. why would the stillens gain be lower when you have an exhaust and not the post maf tubes?

truthfully the gains by both would be lower (if the post maf even gives any gains)

Correct, which is why peak power should be considered. At this point in time, the cars reading the most power regardless of mods with a set of Stillen G3 intakes still nets the most power.

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Since the G3 intakes sit in the best location of all intakes, they can intake cooler air than the Injens or stock airbox just on the location alone. Cooler air is denser, therefore it will make slightly more power in all conditions on that quality alone. But it then comes down to a few wheel horsepower between intake setups and whether a person believes pursuing those couple horsepower is worth the extra cost of the G3s or Injens over the K&N drop ins/MAF tubes.

For me, the sound, looks and peak power/torque of the G3s made it worthwhile. However, I also picked them up from a forum member for a fair amount less than a brand new set. I still believe they are the best intakes out there at the moment in my opinion if cost is not an object.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-14-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Correct, which is why peak power should be considered. At this point in time, the cars reading the most power regardless of mods with a set of Stillen G3 intakes still nets the most power.

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Since the G3 intakes sit in the best location of all intakes, they can intake cooler air than the Injens or stock airbox just on the location alone. Cooler air is denser, therefore it will make slightly more power in all conditions on that quality alone. But it then comes down to a few wheel horsepower between intake setups and whether a person believes pursuing those couple horsepower is worth the extra cost of the G3s or Injens over the K&N drop ins/MAF tubes.

For me, the sound, looks and peak power/torque of the G3s made it worthwhile. However, I also picked them up from a forum member for a fair amount less than a brand new set. I still believe they are the best intakes out there at the moment in my opinion if cost is not an object.

Thanks for the info, this is why I will be picking up a set of G3s in the future

V8Killer · 07-14-2011, 10:16 PM

Guys just me talking,

You want to play you gotta pay. We have all heard it before. If you want true answers on parts look for people with the same setup u want and get the numbers. I found one guy and the only difference is I have a stilled ud and he has nst. So u want real numbers do it that way, im just saying.

WAGAWAGA · 07-14-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Correct, which is why peak power should be considered. At this point in time, the cars reading the most power regardless of mods with a set of Stillen G3 intakes still nets the most power.

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Since the G3 intakes sit in the best location of all intakes, they can intake cooler air than the Injens or stock airbox just on the location alone. Cooler air is denser, therefore it will make slightly more power in all conditions on that quality alone. But it then comes down to a few wheel horsepower between intake setups and whether a person believes pursuing those couple horsepower is worth the extra cost of the G3s or Injens over the K&N drop ins/MAF tubes.

For me, the sound, looks and peak power/torque of the G3s made it worthwhile. However, I also picked them up from a forum member for a fair amount less than a brand new set. I still believe they are the best intakes out there at the moment in my opinion if cost is not an object.

I used to believe this too, but after this thread Stillen vs. Smoky: your take on intakes im kinda confused on how intakes work.

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAGAWAGA

I used to believe this too, but after this thread Stillen vs. Smoky: your take on intakes im kinda confused on how intakes work.

Unless there is another factor involved in that test, I do not believe those dyno numbers. While the TS intake shroud will block a lot of radiant heat, it is still not sealed and is sucking in hot air from the engine bay. The TS intake is still an expensive glorified short ram intake most of which have been shown to have no power gains or even hurt power.

Zedx · 07-15-2011, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

What are the downsides or disadvantages to getting 4.08 gears, especially considering a Z that is DD and driven mostly on the highway? I've asked this question around in a couple of different threads but never really got an answer. I'm interested in getting them, but not if they severely affect the DD capability of my Z.

Get the lighter flywheel and Clutch. it will have similar effects. i totally loved mine personally over the gears.

V8Killer · 07-15-2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedx

Get the lighter flywheel and Clutch. it will have similar effects. i totally loved mine personally over the gears.

Why did you decide to go with Z1 flywheel? I just bought the JWT combo.

DLSTR · 07-15-2011, 07:21 AM

NA motors are expensive to mod for marginal gains of any meaning. A turbo based motors yields much more power when mods are done in general. None of it is cheap. My Abarth 500 here in Germany has 135 hp with my G-Tech ECU mod for about 700Euros its how above 163 with a nice boost in torque. A bigger turbo/ ECU and exhaust will get you about 210. Thats about 4000euro package from G-Tech overall for a healthy boost to 210. More could be found but the gearbox limitations begin to arise as well.

Again not cheap but turbo based motors respond better and give you more flexibility. You live with what you are given.
I am no expert just passing what Ive seen in general.
Dave in Germany

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 07:48 AM

Yeah, the Evo X responded very well to mods... much better than even the 9 did. However the interior of the car was purely cheap and the car (while very technolgically advanced) was very heavy. I have to say all in all having a car that stock runs a 13.3 and sometimes better and with the right NA mods will run down to about a 12.5 or so is perfectly fine with me. I know that would require the right exhaust, LTH's, Intake, tune and maybe a few others. I'm ok with that but ultimately it's going to depend on what intake does the best at this point... that will likely be my first mod... but perhaps I should go with the exhaust first?

b1adesofcha0s · 07-15-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedx

Get the lighter flywheel and Clutch. it will have similar effects. i totally loved mine personally over the gears.

I have the 7AT so I don't think those mods can be applied to my Z :|

shadoquad · 07-15-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Correct, which is why peak power should be considered. At this point in time, the cars reading the most power regardless of mods with a set of Stillen G3 intakes still nets the most power.

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Since the G3 intakes sit in the best location of all intakes, they can intake cooler air than the Injens or stock airbox just on the location alone. Cooler air is denser, therefore it will make slightly more power in all conditions on that quality alone. But it then comes down to a few wheel horsepower between intake setups and whether a person believes pursuing those couple horsepower is worth the extra cost of the G3s or Injens over the K&N drop ins/MAF tubes.

For me, the sound, looks and peak power/torque of the G3s made it worthwhile. However, I also picked them up from a forum member for a fair amount less than a brand new set. I still believe they are the best intakes out there at the moment in my opinion if cost is not an object.

Wait, they take in cooler air than the injens? I'm not sure I buy that. They're in a better position because they're not susceptible to hydro-lock, from what I understand.

07-14-2011, 05:04 PM	#33 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 141	From what I've read, I think usually for most combinations of intake/exhaust/HFC or TP/tune there's around a 30 whp gain. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

07-14-2011, 10:16 PM	#37 (permalink)
V8Killer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, NC Posts: 1,127 Drives: It Hard Till It Pops Rep Power: 16	Guys just me talking, You want to play you gotta pay. We have all heard it before. If you want true answers on parts look for people with the same setup u want and get the numbers. I found one guy and the only difference is I have a stilled ud and he has nst. So u want real numbers do it that way, im just saying. __________________ "Punch" Too much to list and a baby shot of nitrous....

07-15-2011, 07:21 AM	#42 (permalink)
DLSTR A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Süd Germany Posts: 2,462 Drives: 21Supra 2.0/22 M240i Rep Power: 21267	NA motors are expensive to mod for marginal gains of any meaning. A turbo based motors yields much more power when mods are done in general. None of it is cheap. My Abarth 500 here in Germany has 135 hp with my G-Tech ECU mod for about 700Euros its how above 163 with a nice boost in torque. A bigger turbo/ ECU and exhaust will get you about 210. Thats about 4000euro package from G-Tech overall for a healthy boost to 210. More could be found but the gearbox limitations begin to arise as well. Again not cheap but turbo based motors respond better and give you more flexibility. You live with what you are given. I am no expert just passing what Ive seen in general. Dave in Germany Last edited by DLSTR; 07-15-2011 at 07:31 AM.

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07-14-2011, 04:50 PM	#31 (permalink)
Glokwork A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 2,657 Drives: 11 370Z MB 6MT Rep Power: 21	From what I understand lets say the g3's claim 16whp and that's your first mod, you may reach that. FI TDX claims around 22whp and you add that next, you're not gonna see a 16whp gain and then another 22whp gain. So on and so forth from each future mod, at least that's what's been explained to me, I could be wrong about that but just trying to help with some of the confusion of whp gains people have gotten from the same mod.

07-14-2011, 05:03 PM	#32 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	It's not a scam. It's just how engines breathe. I'm not technical enough to explain it, but the advertised hp gains are noted against a stock setup, assuming all other parts are factory. When combining the parts, they do not simply stack those hp numbers, because both parts effect how the engine breathes.

07-14-2011, 05:51 PM	#34 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 16	I was trying to find some actual numbers for the R2C's, but there's nothing. It does look like quite a solid design and a very nice fitment. However as said... there's no real numbers on it.

07-15-2011, 07:48 AM	#43 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 16	Yeah, the Evo X responded very well to mods... much better than even the 9 did. However the interior of the car was purely cheap and the car (while very technolgically advanced) was very heavy. I have to say all in all having a car that stock runs a 13.3 and sometimes better and with the right NA mods will run down to about a 12.5 or so is perfectly fine with me. I know that would require the right exhaust, LTH's, Intake, tune and maybe a few others. I'm ok with that but ultimately it's going to depend on what intake does the best at this point... that will likely be my first mod... but perhaps I should go with the exhaust first?