K&N drop ins are the best

jran76 · 05-10-2011, 11:53 AM

Just a couple comments because I am too lazy to respond to all of it (and I agree with most of what you are saying)....

Turbulent air is more of an issue at the MAF sensors, or pre-MAF, and I will agree that in general turbulent air is a bad thing (it just has less of an affect once being sucked in under vacuum). The biggest issue (and one that some aftermarket intakes suffer from) is the affect of turbulent air has on readings by the MAF sensor. I do think Stillen's design helps keep turbulent air to a minimum pre-MAF, and one of the primary reasons it performs better than most other aftermarket intakes.

From all the testing I have seen (by 2-3 extremely reputable companies), there is nothing to indicate the stock boxes are in any way restrictive, or cannot provide enough air to the engine. I think the Stillen brings in slightly cooler and more air on the dyno, and that is the big advantage. At speed, I don't think the amount of air the factory boxes can flow is an issue. They are also bringing in a lot of the cooler air the Stillen is going to pull in once the car is in motion.

Also, one last comment on the throttle plates/bodies, according to Mike Kojima (who did a lot of research on the VQ37VHR early on):
"The unique VVEL system completely controls the intake valves opening and closing events.... The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates.The VQ37VHR does retain twin drive by wire throttles but they mostly stay wide open, the only time they close is on overrun to help provide engine braking and if the engines ECU detects low vacuum in the brake booster reservoir."

Reference (full article): Edit.... The link is blocked, I guess because it is from another site (god forbid should we share relevant information). If anyone really cares about it, I am sure you can search for Mike Kojima's site and find the article I quoted.

jran76 · 05-10-2011, 12:04 PM

One more thing.... I know there are lot of people on here that love their Stillen intakes, and I think that is great. You are very passionate about them, and I know I am not going to change your mind. There is nothing wrong with the Stillen intake. It is a lot better than any other aftermarket intake I have seen or researched. My only point is that the stock air boxes are not a problem compared to some of the other restrictions.

wstar · 05-10-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jran76

One more thing.... I know there are lot of people on here that love their Stillen intakes, and I think that is great. You are very passionate about them, and I know I am not going to change your mind.

Please don't put me in this camp though. I run the G3 intakes, and I like them, but I'm loyal to no vendor. If I find evidence a mod isn't working out right, it comes off in a heartbeat, although I do try to avoid bashing the vendor about it. I had epic problems with a Stillen exhaust system back in 2009 and I was never satisfied with their customer support on that issue. I ended up eating the cost of the exhaust and throwing it out at a metal recycling place.

flashburn · 05-10-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Please don't put me in this camp though. I run the G3 intakes, and I like them, but I'm loyal to no vendor. If I find evidence a mod isn't working out right, it comes off in a heartbeat, although I do try to avoid bashing the vendor about it. I had epic problems with a Stillen exhaust system back in 2009 and I was never satisfied with their customer support on that issue. I ended up eating the cost of the exhaust and throwing it out at a metal recycling place.

Yeah, same here. I don't really like this dude saying basically "you guys are only acting like you got gains because you are loyal to Stillen and you spent a lot of money". The gains are PROVEN, end of story. You "feeling" like stock is better, is just that, a feeling, with no proof what-so-ever to back it up. If there was hard proof that the stock intakes were better than the G3's, I'd rip them off in a heart beat, and I bet that many others here feel the same way.

jran76 · 05-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashburn

Yeah, same here. I don't really like this dude saying basically "you guys are only acting like you got gains because you are loyal to Stillen and you spent a lot of money". The gains are PROVEN, end of story. You "feeling" like stock is better, is just that, a feeling, with no proof what-so-ever to back it up. If there was hard proof that the stock intakes were better than the G3's, I'd rip them off in a heart beat, and I bet that many others here feel the same way.

You guys are funny. No one accused you of anything. I never said there was anything wrong with the Stillen (it just happened to be what was being discussed). They make some power on a dyno... no doubt. My point is (again), you cannot accurately measure the performance of the stock air box on a dyno. There is evidence of this. I can't link the research and articles because they are on other sites (I tried and it was blocked). If you search you will find the information. Take two deep breaths, chill, and read what I wrote in my first post again.... Please. Thanks.

wstar · 05-10-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jran76

The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates.The VQ37VHR does retain twin drive by wire throttles but they mostly stay wide open, the only time they close is on overrun to help provide engine braking and if the engines ECU detects low vacuum in the brake booster reservoir."

On this point: I remember hearing about this in the past, but I don't think stock ECU actually operates in this manner. I've never run my car with the intakes off to visually verify, but when monitoring throttle position sensors (which means the actual throttle plates on our car, not the accel pedal) via Torque or Cipher, it seems they do progressively open just like the throttle plates of any other car. I imagine Osiris or similar should be able to tune them wide open under accel, but I'm not sure.

jran76 · 05-10-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

On this point: I remember hearing about this in the past, but I don't think stock ECU actually operates in this manner. I've never run my car with the intakes off to visually verify, but when monitoring throttle position sensors (which means the actual throttle plates on our car, not the accel pedal) via Torque or Cipher, it seems they do progressively open just like the throttle plates of any other car. I imagine Osiris or similar should be able to tune them wide open under accel, but I'm not sure.

My car is tuned, and I can tell you it makes little to no difference how far the throttle bodies are opened in regards to throttle response. It is one reason throttle response is not really "tunable" until some cracks the VVEL. You can't really run the car without the intakes connected because the MAF sensors won't get a signal at that point.

05-10-2011, 11:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
jran76 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 74 Drives: 09 G37S Sedan 6MT Rep Power: 17	Just a couple comments because I am too lazy to respond to all of it (and I agree with most of what you are saying).... Turbulent air is more of an issue at the MAF sensors, or pre-MAF, and I will agree that in general turbulent air is a bad thing (it just has less of an affect once being sucked in under vacuum). The biggest issue (and one that some aftermarket intakes suffer from) is the affect of turbulent air has on readings by the MAF sensor. I do think Stillen's design helps keep turbulent air to a minimum pre-MAF, and one of the primary reasons it performs better than most other aftermarket intakes. From all the testing I have seen (by 2-3 extremely reputable companies), there is nothing to indicate the stock boxes are in any way restrictive, or cannot provide enough air to the engine. I think the Stillen brings in slightly cooler and more air on the dyno, and that is the big advantage. At speed, I don't think the amount of air the factory boxes can flow is an issue. They are also bringing in a lot of the cooler air the Stillen is going to pull in once the car is in motion. Also, one last comment on the throttle plates/bodies, according to Mike Kojima (who did a lot of research on the VQ37VHR early on): "The unique VVEL system completely controls the intake valves opening and closing events.... The command authority of the VVEL system is great enough so controlling valve opening is the primary means of throttling the VQ37VHR’s output, instead of traditional throttle plates.The VQ37VHR does retain twin drive by wire throttles but they mostly stay wide open, the only time they close is on overrun to help provide engine braking and if the engines ECU detects low vacuum in the brake booster reservoir." Reference (full article): Edit.... The link is blocked, I guess because it is from another site (god forbid should we share relevant information). If anyone really cares about it, I am sure you can search for Mike Kojima's site and find the article I quoted. __________________ 2009 G37S Sedan-6MT: Advan / Volk / Tein / SPC / Invidia / Cobb / K&N Last edited by jran76; 05-10-2011 at 11:57 AM.

05-10-2011, 12:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
jran76 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 74 Drives: 09 G37S Sedan 6MT Rep Power: 17	One more thing.... I know there are lot of people on here that love their Stillen intakes, and I think that is great. You are very passionate about them, and I know I am not going to change your mind. There is nothing wrong with the Stillen intake. It is a lot better than any other aftermarket intake I have seen or researched. My only point is that the stock air boxes are not a problem compared to some of the other restrictions. __________________ 2009 G37S Sedan-6MT: Advan / Volk / Tein / SPC / Invidia / Cobb / K&N

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