Stillen HFC vs. BERK HFC

semtex · 04-14-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axio

Ahhhh woops, my bad. Thanks again, great info on this thread

I hope you never throw any as well, but aparantly you know how to fix em in case they do!

You said you ordered them, right? As in...you haven't installed them yet? If you haven't installed them yet, then you might want to go ahead and stuff some stainless steel wool into those ports right from the get-go, prior to installing. Then you're covered for sure and don't have to worry about getting a CEL in the future. That's what I'd have done had it occurred to me before I installed them.

RCZ · 04-14-2009, 04:30 PM

No you have to get super uber special stainless steel wool. Only pure stainlessanium steel nitrate with mega ferro-magnetic qualities will help in the atomization of the A and P particles within the C02 condensation patterns. Without it, not only will you void your warranty, but you will also turn air passing through the exhaust into prancing miniature unicorns. Unicorns = rice.

Yes...normal SS wool from home depot...

semtex · 04-14-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

No you have to get super uber special stainless steel wool. Only pure stainlessanium steel nitrate with mega ferro-magnetic qualities will help in the atomization of the A and P particles within the C02 condensation patterns.

Yes...normal SS wool from home depot...

LOL. You are such a smarta$$. :stfu:

In all seriousness though, RCZ do you know if there's any chance of the steel wool becoming dislodged and falling into the exhaust?

axio · 04-14-2009, 04:35 PM

Haha, awesome, thanks for the input guys. Just added +Rep for the three of you (RCZ, semtex & NismoZ)

semtex · 04-14-2009, 04:43 PM

Axio, I was just looking at a photo of the HFCs. That extension tube is actually pretty small/thin. If you stuff a small wad of SS wool in there, I doubt it's going to go anywhere. There just isn't enough space for it to move around. What I'd do is stuff the wool in just a little, then allow the O2 sensor to push it the rest of the way in as it's being tightened (vs. pushing it in with your finger or a screwdriver).

RCZ · 04-14-2009, 04:47 PM

aww you missed the unicorns part.

I would assume that is a possibility. I assume the non-foulers purpose is to take the sensor out of the direct flow of the exhaust gas, which would cause it to miss read and trigger the cel? I am not sure about this, I have always just assumed this was the reasoning. I also assume the steel wool is there to create even more of a barrier (yet allow it to pass enough gas through to the sensor) while not melting under the high temperatures of the exhaust gas.

Right?

This is the reason why Berk and others have decided to create out-of-flow adapters for the o2 sensors (built in non-foulers). This is the reason why I am assuming Stillen's HFC will have this feature as well, perhaps evolved in one way or another to keep it from affecting flow.

Careful with the O2 sensor Semtex, it is very easy to damage them, they are sensitive.

semtex · 04-14-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

aww you missed the unicorns part.

I would assume that is a possibility. I assume the non-foulers purpose is to take the sensor out of the direct flow of the exhaust gas, which would cause it to miss read and trigger the cel? I am not sure about this, I have always just assumed this was the reasoning. I also assume the steel wool is there to create even more of a barrier (yet allow it to pass enough gas through to the sensor) while not melting under the high temperatures of the exhaust gas.

Right?

This is the reason why Berk and others have decided to create out-of-flow adapters for the o2 sensors (built in non-foulers). This is the reason why I am assuming Stillen's HFC will have this feature as well, perhaps evolved in one way or another to keep it from affecting flow.

Careful with the O2 sensor Semtex, it is very easy to damage them, they are sensitive.

Stillen's HFC doesn't have this feature. Have you seen them yet? They're up on their website with pics. Available for sale. That's how this whole side-discussion got started -- I pointed out the lack of this 'feature' on the Stillen HFCs, which means they'll need anti-foulers. Some folks chimed in and said that even with Berk's built-in extensions, you still might get CELs, hence the steel wool.

wstar · 04-14-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Careful with the O2 sensor Semtex, it is very easy to damage them, they are sensitive.

And expensive.

ChrisSlicks · 04-14-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Careful with the O2 sensor Semtex, it is very easy to damage them, they are sensitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

And expensive.

Apparently O2 sensors are female!

NIZMOZ · 04-14-2009, 04:57 PM

RCZ, correct. Non-foulers are there exactly as you said, to move the sensor out of the flow to prevent them from triggering a light. Some cars are more sensitive than others and it will trip faster. So the SS wool comes in handy in that case.

RCZ · 04-14-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

...It's pretty much a gaurantee that the hi-flow cats will set off check engine lights. We are currently working on a way to defeat that though and hope to have that solution soon. Our engineers are testing two different ways to fix the CEL issue. We would like to stay away from tricking the ECU if possible...

Hence my comment semtex.

RCZ · 04-14-2009, 05:38 PM

Does anyone see anything possibly catastrophic about making my own o2 fix?

I think any one of these HFC's or race pipes can be made to work just as long as we keep the o2 sensor from seeing turbulence.

semtex · 04-14-2009, 06:20 PM

Not sure what you have in mind. Just use the anti-fouler method if you're planning to use HFCs or test pipes without an integrated extension tube. That's essentially what the anti-fouler method is -- a way to keep the O2 sensors from turbulence.

brooke · 04-14-2009, 07:10 PM

I like GTM's design with their cats....

BalanBro · 04-14-2009, 07:55 PM

Not too familiar with the exhaust system setup on the 370z. Are these the secondary (main) cats following a pre-cat in the exhaust manifold? Most systems I've seen on other cars have a primary o2 sensor before the first cat to monitor A/F, and a second between the two cats to make sure it is doin its job. There is usually no monitoring further downstream of the second o2 sensor (i.e. in theory, the car would not even know if the secondary converters were removed). Is this not the case for the new z?

04-14-2009, 04:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	No you have to get super uber special stainless steel wool. Only pure stainlessanium steel nitrate with mega ferro-magnetic qualities will help in the atomization of the A and P particles within the C02 condensation patterns. Without it, not only will you void your warranty, but you will also turn air passing through the exhaust into prancing miniature unicorns. Unicorns = rice. Yes...normal SS wool from home depot... Last edited by RCZ; 04-14-2009 at 04:33 PM.

04-14-2009, 04:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 55 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 34	Axio, I was just looking at a photo of the HFCs. That extension tube is actually pretty small/thin. If you stuff a small wad of SS wool in there, I doubt it's going to go anywhere. There just isn't enough space for it to move around. What I'd do is stuff the wool in just a little, then allow the O2 sensor to push it the rest of the way in as it's being tightened (vs. pushing it in with your finger or a screwdriver). __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

04-14-2009, 04:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 492	RCZ, correct. Non-foulers are there exactly as you said, to move the sensor out of the flow to prevent them from triggering a light. Some cars are more sensitive than others and it will trip faster. So the SS wool comes in handy in that case. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

04-14-2009, 05:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	Does anyone see anything possibly catastrophic about making my own o2 fix? I think any one of these HFC's or race pipes can be made to work just as long as we keep the o2 sensor from seeing turbulence. Last edited by RCZ; 04-14-2009 at 05:59 PM.

04-14-2009, 06:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 55 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 34	Not sure what you have in mind. Just use the anti-fouler method if you're planning to use HFCs or test pipes without an integrated extension tube. That's essentially what the anti-fouler method is -- a way to keep the O2 sensors from turbulence. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

04-14-2009, 04:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
axio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 271 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 18	Haha, awesome, thanks for the input guys. Just added +Rep for the three of you (RCZ, semtex & NismoZ)

04-14-2009, 04:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	aww you missed the unicorns part. I would assume that is a possibility. I assume the non-foulers purpose is to take the sensor out of the direct flow of the exhaust gas, which would cause it to miss read and trigger the cel? I am not sure about this, I have always just assumed this was the reasoning. I also assume the steel wool is there to create even more of a barrier (yet allow it to pass enough gas through to the sensor) while not melting under the high temperatures of the exhaust gas. Right? This is the reason why Berk and others have decided to create out-of-flow adapters for the o2 sensors (built in non-foulers). This is the reason why I am assuming Stillen's HFC will have this feature as well, perhaps evolved in one way or another to keep it from affecting flow. Careful with the O2 sensor Semtex, it is very easy to damage them, they are sensitive.

04-14-2009, 07:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
brooke Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA Posts: 12 Drives: 04 350z tt Rep Power: 18	I like GTM's design with their cats....

04-14-2009, 07:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
BalanBro Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 318 Drives: 40th Anniv. 370Z Rep Power: 1113	Not too familiar with the exhaust system setup on the 370z. Are these the secondary (main) cats following a pre-cat in the exhaust manifold? Most systems I've seen on other cars have a primary o2 sensor before the first cat to monitor A/F, and a second between the two cats to make sure it is doin its job. There is usually no monitoring further downstream of the second o2 sensor (i.e. in theory, the car would not even know if the secondary converters were removed). Is this not the case for the new z?

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