Cold Air Intake HP Debate - Is it worth it ?

Anarky · 04-03-2011, 01:54 PM

I'm no expert on this but I have to agree with Nitex

Cmike2780 · 04-03-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitex

Interesting, my filters are pulling air from in front of my bumper core suport, completely outside the engine. Factory boxes are inside the core support/ partially inside the engine bay?

The boxes are in the engine bay, but I think the air is drawn from the same area. Hp wise, both mod gains are hardly impressive on their own. I think it's a matter of personal preference.

roplusbee · 04-03-2011, 02:35 PM

I hardly find myself revving to 7k on the road (although it sounds awesome). I just don't find a need for it. One I get this baby on the track, things may change, but I just can't see spending the money on G3s for a slight gain up top in the power band. I would rather spend money to get low to midrange response. Henc the reason for my long wait and deliberation regarding TT and SC.

Daishi · 04-03-2011, 06:03 PM

Not knocking the s2k its a great car and all I considered buying one but the comment about Nissan not being able to touch 100hp per liter is just retarded nismo 370z 350hp/3.7 is about 95 so it'd very very close. And the comment about bolt on mods give more power on Hondas than Nissan is just plain false. As a matter of fact bolt ons with the 370 will gain more power. I have very close friends with s2ks and know the car quite well. The usual bolt ons intake test pipe exhaust will net you around 225whp on a dynojet. Most of which is all from the test pipe and couple HP from intake and exhaust. Other than that your spending big money to increase HP anymore than that on your s2k.

Red__Zed · 04-03-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daishi

Not knocking the s2k its a great car and all I considered buying one but the comment about Nissan not being able to touch 100hp per liter is just retarded nismo 370z 350hp/3.7 is about 95 so it'd very very close. And the comment about bolt on mods give more power on Hondas than Nissan is just plain false. As a matter of fact bolt ons with the 370 will gain more power. I have very close friends with s2ks and know the car quite well. The usual bolt ons intake test pipe exhaust will net you around 225whp on a dynojet. Most of which is all from the test pipe and couple HP from intake and exhaust. Other than that your spending big money to increase HP anymore than that on your s2k.

the S puts out 120 hp per liter.

Daishi · 04-03-2011, 06:24 PM

His argument was that Nissan can't come close to 100. So thats what I'm basing my argument on. But regardless the 2.2 at supposedly 238 HP dyno more to the wheels than the 2.0 at supposedly 240 HP. Either way I'm sure Nissan can improve HP per liter but at what cost? Lower rpm power and shifting the power band way up top like the s2k

Nikkolai · 04-03-2011, 07:47 PM

Lol wow, sparked up some heat here. All I wanted to state was the aftermarket support. Lots of naturally aspirated built engines out there in the Honda world. I do not consider bolt ons (i.e. on a Nissan) as a naturally aspirated build (part of it, yes, but I am talking about internals).

jnaut · 04-03-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daishi

His argument was that Nissan can't come close to 100. So thats what I'm basing my argument on. But regardless the 2.2 at supposedly 238 HP dyno more to the wheels than the 2.0 at supposedly 240 HP. Either way I'm sure Nissan can improve HP per liter but at what cost? Lower rpm power and shifting the power band way up top like the s2k

I am not a honda or nissan fanboy, name 1 box stock nissan or and " normal" car that comes close to 120 hp/liter? So it not a false statment, it a fact. At 120 hp/ liter the z needs to make around 450 hp. Yes the s2k makes no tq and yes it is tiresome to have to rev it to go anywhere. I can't think of 1 nissan the hit 100 hp/ liter.

Jordo! · 04-03-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitex

Interesting, my filters are pulling air from in front of my bumper core suport, completely outside the engine. Factory boxes are inside the core support/ partially inside the engine bay?

They have ducts that pull air from in front of the radiator. The location of the filter itself is irrelevant.

If the ducts weren't there (as they aren't for a SRI) you would be right.

As to the airbox being under the hood, the pipes are under your hood too... the air will warm up once it is in there...

Actually, metal pipes will heat it up more than plastic -- considered that?

In any case, the difference appears to be less than 5 whp on the average.

BalanBro · 04-03-2011, 10:08 PM

I'm still betting the Gen III is really making power by leaning out the MAF signal using a (slightly) larger diameter tube at the sensor. That sorta explains why the first two versions did very little in terms or performance. It really doesn't have to be much bigger. A millimeter or two would likely be all that's needed.

It would be great of someone could measure the diameter of the MAF tube on the Gen 3 vs the OEM pipe.

Jordo! · 04-03-2011, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BalanBro

I'm still betting the Gen III is really making power by leaning out the MAF signal using a (slightly) larger diameter tube at the sensor. That sorta explains why the first two versions did very little in terms or performance. It really doesn't have to be much bigger. A millimeter or two would likely be all that's needed.

It would be great of someone could measure the diameter of the MAF tube on the Gen 3 vs the OEM pipe.

I mentioned that possiblity too -- if so, the small performance difference will vanish with tuning and you'll just have a very expensive noise maker bolted to the car...

I will say this: I have seen MANY crappy airbox designs -- this one actually seems to work pretty well. No butterfly valves to obstruct air -- straight path -- cool air ductwork.

dark_nismo · 04-04-2011, 12:57 AM

I was going with the MAF's at first but I decided to go with the Injen C.A.I's. I'm guessing they have similar gains to the Gen 3 stillens. Haven't heard many mention the Injens ( feel free to coment on these). Anyways, in the end we won't really know the answer to the op's question unless we put this to the test. I don't think anyone wants to take the time to do this. Our cars are already well designed in the intake dept but like someone else said here, it all comes down to personal preference. "I" believe that colder air going In has to have a slight advantage in the overall HP/tq gain dept but that's just me....

Cmike2780 · 04-04-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

I am not a honda or nissan fanboy, name 1 box stock nissan or and " normal" car that comes close to 120 hp/liter? So it not a false statment, it a fact. At 120 hp/ liter the z needs to make around 450 hp. Yes the s2k makes no tq and yes it is tiresome to have to rev it to go anywhere. I can't think of 1 nissan the hit 100 hp/ liter.

Mazda RX8=178HP per litre
LF-A= 115HP per litre
458 Italia=126HP per litre

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_nismo

I was going with the MAF's at first but I decided to go with the Injen C.A.I's. I'm guessing they have similar gains to the Gen 3 stillens. Haven't heard many mention the Injens ( feel free to coment on these). Anyways, in the end we won't really know the answer to the op's question unless we put this to the test. I don't think anyone wants to take the time to do this. Our cars are already well designed in the intake dept but like someone else said here, it all comes down to personal preference. "I" believe that colder air going In has to have a slight advantage in the overall HP/tq gain dept but that's just me....

This:
HELP! CAI Sucked Up Water!

BLM · 04-04-2011, 09:39 AM

Mazda actually issued customer rebates with the first gen RX-8's because the power output they advertised was so grossly over-rated. IIRC they advertised around 240 bhp and the dyno's were in the 160-170 range.

Red__Zed · 04-04-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

Mazda RX8=178HP per litre
LF-A= 115HP per litre
458 Italia=126HP per litre

This:
HELP! CAI Sucked Up Water!

Rx8 has a rotary, not to mention it was grossly overrated.

I was unaware the LFA and the 458 were "normal" cars...

04-03-2011, 02:35 PM	#33 (permalink)
roplusbee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 2,360 Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO Rep Power: 22	I hardly find myself revving to 7k on the road (although it sounds awesome). I just don't find a need for it. One I get this baby on the track, things may change, but I just can't see spending the money on G3s for a slight gain up top in the power band. I would rather spend money to get low to midrange response. Henc the reason for my long wait and deliberation regarding TT and SC. __________________ 2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift \| UPREV \| F.I. \| Greddy \| Competition Clutch \| Injector Dynamics \| Aeromotive \| Pioneer \| JL

04-03-2011, 06:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
Daishi Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 683 Drives: 09 370z 6Speed Rep Power: 16	Not knocking the s2k its a great car and all I considered buying one but the comment about Nissan not being able to touch 100hp per liter is just retarded nismo 370z 350hp/3.7 is about 95 so it'd very very close. And the comment about bolt on mods give more power on Hondas than Nissan is just plain false. As a matter of fact bolt ons with the 370 will gain more power. I have very close friends with s2ks and know the car quite well. The usual bolt ons intake test pipe exhaust will net you around 225whp on a dynojet. Most of which is all from the test pipe and couple HP from intake and exhaust. Other than that your spending big money to increase HP anymore than that on your s2k. __________________ Cobb Tuned \| Injen Intakes \| Fast Intentions Long Tube Headers \| Fast Intentions TDX Catback 18" Resonators CF Mufflers \| Tommy Kaira Hebi Bebi Shift Knob \| 19x9.5/19x10.5 Five Axis Design S5:F w/ 245/40/19 - 285/35/19 Hankook Ventus V12's

04-03-2011, 06:24 PM	#36 (permalink)
Daishi Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 683 Drives: 09 370z 6Speed Rep Power: 16	His argument was that Nissan can't come close to 100. So thats what I'm basing my argument on. But regardless the 2.2 at supposedly 238 HP dyno more to the wheels than the 2.0 at supposedly 240 HP. Either way I'm sure Nissan can improve HP per liter but at what cost? Lower rpm power and shifting the power band way up top like the s2k __________________ Cobb Tuned \| Injen Intakes \| Fast Intentions Long Tube Headers \| Fast Intentions TDX Catback 18" Resonators CF Mufflers \| Tommy Kaira Hebi Bebi Shift Knob \| 19x9.5/19x10.5 Five Axis Design S5:F w/ 245/40/19 - 285/35/19 Hankook Ventus V12's

04-03-2011, 10:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
BalanBro Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 318 Drives: 40th Anniv. 370Z Rep Power: 1111	I'm still betting the Gen III is really making power by leaning out the MAF signal using a (slightly) larger diameter tube at the sensor. That sorta explains why the first two versions did very little in terms or performance. It really doesn't have to be much bigger. A millimeter or two would likely be all that's needed. It would be great of someone could measure the diameter of the MAF tube on the Gen 3 vs the OEM pipe. __________________ 2012 Mercedes C63 AMG P31 Sedan, ROW, aFe, Eurocharged Dyno Tune. 438WHP/415WTQ 2010 SOLD: 40th Anniversary 370z

04-04-2011, 09:39 AM	#44 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	Mazda actually issued customer rebates with the first gen RX-8's because the power output they advertised was so grossly over-rated. IIRC they advertised around 240 bhp and the dyno's were in the 160-170 range. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK

04-03-2011, 01:54 PM	#31 (permalink)
Anarky Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 118 Drives: 2011 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 14	I'm no expert on this but I have to agree with Nitex

04-03-2011, 07:47 PM	#37 (permalink)
Nikkolai Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: DFW Posts: 238 Drives: Boss 302, Frontier Rep Power: 14	Lol wow, sparked up some heat here. All I wanted to state was the aftermarket support. Lots of naturally aspirated built engines out there in the Honda world. I do not consider bolt ons (i.e. on a Nissan) as a naturally aspirated build (part of it, yes, but I am talking about internals).

04-04-2011, 12:57 AM	#42 (permalink)
dark_nismo Base Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: L_A Posts: 64 Drives: 2009 370z Nismo Blk Rep Power: 14	I was going with the MAF's at first but I decided to go with the Injen C.A.I's. I'm guessing they have similar gains to the Gen 3 stillens. Haven't heard many mention the Injens ( feel free to coment on these). Anyways, in the end we won't really know the answer to the op's question unless we put this to the test. I don't think anyone wants to take the time to do this. Our cars are already well designed in the intake dept but like someone else said here, it all comes down to personal preference. "I" believe that colder air going In has to have a slight advantage in the overall HP/tq gain dept but that's just me....

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