GT Motorsports: 370Z Supercharger system development

Togo · 02-19-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Alright so after reading a bit from reputable sources. AKA Garrett from the stuff that Silo showed us.

Bigger turbos make more power per the same psi for two main reasons:

1) Bigger turbo will put less heat into the air and therefore the air is denser. More air = more power

2) The actual CFM of the turbo is meaningless. What matters is how much of that air is actually going into the engine and being used. There are restrictions that keep all the air from getting to the combustion chamber, the main one being backpressure from the exhaust housing of the turbo. The smaller it is the more backpressure, the less air that can flow through the engine, the less air that can flow INTO it in the first place and therefore less power. So bigger exhaust housing means less backpressure, meaning more air in, meaning more power.

The logic seems to be that it doesnt matter if the turbo can flow an infinite cfm, if the engine can't make use of it. The less backpressure, the more the engine can use, the more power it can make.

So how does this all apply to the SC vs TC dilemma?

I would say its the same thing, more flow through the engine means more power. So why do manufacturers recommend sticking with 2.5" piping rather than 3" piping on an SC? Because the sc doesnt flow enough in the first place to cause a 2.5" exhaust to become an obstruction??

If I had to take a guess, and yeah thats what I'm doing with this post, I'd say the SC doesn't make enough power to bog down a 2.5" exhaust. The turbo's turbine housing would be causing some back pressure relatively close to the engine so I'd suspect the 3" turbo back exhaust would help elevate the back pressure by creating a lower pressure area aft of the turbines. The low pressure area would help increase the flow over the turbines due to a relatively high pressure zone pre-turbine. I don't think that a 500RWHP TT setup produces more exhaust than a 500RWHP SC setup so the 3" exhaust might just help to lower the pressure pre-turbine by moving those gases over the turbine blades faster and more efficiently.

StillenZ · 02-19-2010, 03:45 PM

LOL... the way you guys talk (technical stuff) just blows my freakin mind... If we were in a face to face conversation I would be nodding my head like I understood wtf you were saying.....

UPDATE NOW!

simota1 · 02-19-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillenZ

LOL... the way you guys talk (technical stuff) just blows my freakin mind... If we were in a face to face conversation I would be nodding my head like I understood wtf you were saying.....

UPDATE NOW!

i completely agree im soooo clueless from how much people talk technical here

id completely do the same thing u would do stillenz

kdoske · 02-19-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus

Kevtex... I have read your posts and for the most part agree with all of them except this one. The power requirement is not the same to get it from a belt as it is from the exhaust. When you take it from the belt you will suffer a larger power requirement due to the parasitic loss etc and you are taking power to make power. Gaining it off of exhaust gasses doesn't cost anything. The engine is shooting out the exhaust gasses whether the turbos are there or not so you are not taking any power from your engine to make the extra power (boost).

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEVTEX

With a turbo, the engine has to work harder to get the exhaust out because of the increased back pressure the turbo provides. The same amount of extra work is required if you take the power from a crank pulley.

I see what kevtex is saying. Laws of physics will tell you the same amount of energy is used to create say 6lbs of boost whether it be by pulley or exhaust. I totally agree with that, but the energy used by the exhaust while exactly the same as the energy used by the pulley does create different effects on the engines HP/TQ output. I still say using the exhaust pressure is more efficient for the engine to create boost and not have such and adverse effect on the current HP output, but yes, it does exhaust the same amount of energy on an atomic level as with the pulley.

roplusbee · 02-19-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Sounds like something that I can agree with, but I have never increased boost pressure in my setups. I have only swapped out turbos for more efficiency for my application and driving habits.

You didnt get the car tuned after swaping the turbo to a bigger one?[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by serturbo

Possibly a MAF equipped car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

still a tune would put it in its real effiecency range as all turbos have their own sweet spot. On my stock turbo once it was tuned I gained power of course but I also gain a couple of MPG as it was in its sweet spot.

Power FC is what I used. Never dyno'd, but I used FC Datalogit to dial in settings for my injectors and boost control module. Took me a long time to tune it (with help from a friend), but my AFR were safe and that was enough to keep me from blowing up. The thing I found odd was that the boost was set @ 10PSI when I bought the car from the lemon lot. I had no idea until I installed my gauge setup. Once I changed out turbos and installed the power FC, I kept the same boost level. The car was a beast compaired to how I purchased it. This was on a CA18DET equipped S13 Fastback (European model).

So if you are asking me if I had my car professionally tuned, the answer is no. Would I do it once I turbo the NISMO, hell yeah. Too many electronics and algorythms at work in a Z ECU. The CA was simple, which is why I loved it.

kdoske · 02-19-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

Haha, agreed. Also, complaining about turbo/centrifugal sc info on this thread yet not about the random fat guy pics here makes no sense to me, lol.

HEY DON'T MAKE FUN OF RANDOM FAT GUY!

Zguy · 02-19-2010, 05:52 PM

wow this thread has grown 10 pages in 2 days..... and only 1 post from GTM out of the 10 pages.... you guys need to start a new thread and quit thread jacking this one....

budakai · 02-19-2010, 06:43 PM

Sam gave us something to talk about.....This is a forum...

kdoske · 02-19-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budakai

Sam gave us something to talk about.....This is a forum...

any other request? Maybe sam can prepare you one of those pretty drinks with a little umbrella while you wait.

SAM@GTM · 02-19-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budakai

Sam gave us something to talk about.....This is a forum...

I think we have showed a lot of info, pics and shared more then any other company that doing this type of work.Yes the process is slow, and i don't think it can be any faster, just sending the car to carb and going through the proses is a big undertaking. them add all the different a/r housing we offer. all different pulley it is a very time consuming work . but that's what it takes .

Sam

Togo · 02-19-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdoske

any other request? Maybe sam can prepare you one of those pretty drinks with a little umbrella while you wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

I think we have showed a lot of info, pics and shared more then any other company that doing this type of work.Yes the process is slow, and i don't think it can be any faster, just sending the car to carb and going through the proses is a big undertaking. them add all the different a/r housing we offer. all different pulley it is a very time consuming work .

I think you guys may have misread Budakai's post. He said Sam already has given us lots of info, in response to Zguy whining about 10 pages of posts with only one post from Sam...

stormcrow · 02-19-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

I think we have showed a lot of info, pics and shared more then any other company that doing this type of work.Yes the process is slow, and i don't think it can be any faster, just sending the car to carb and going through the proses is a big undertaking. them add all the different a/r housing we offer. all different pulley it is a very time consuming work . but that's what it takes .

Sam

I think he was justifying all of the Off Topic garbage in your thread.

But, definitely don't rush the R&D on our account... Take your time...the product is always better when it stews for a while.

kdoske · 02-19-2010, 07:13 PM

lol, your right. ahahahah I though he was saying give us more. My bad!

budakai · 02-19-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togo

I think you guys may have misread Budakai's post. He said Sam already has given us lots of info, in response to Zguy whining about 10 pages of posts with only one post from Sam...

NO NO NO...I was responding to the person above my last post...Everything kool sam..were are just taking about tech stuff...

budakai · 02-19-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

I think we have showed a lot of info, pics and shared more then any other company that doing this type of work.Yes the process is slow, and i don't think it can be any faster, just sending the car to carb and going through the proses is a big undertaking. them add all the different a/r housing we offer. all different pulley it is a very time consuming work . but that's what it takes .

Sam

I was talking about the guy above me with the 10 pages in two days comment. Sorry about that.

02-19-2010, 03:45 PM	#1112 (permalink)
StillenZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 283 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z Red M Rep Power: 16	LOL... the way you guys talk (technical stuff) just blows my freakin mind... If we were in a face to face conversation I would be nodding my head like I understood wtf you were saying..... UPDATE NOW! __________________ Stillen Dual Exhaust / Stillen Gen 3 Intake / Stillen Headers / Eibach Pro-Kit / Euro Fog Lamp / 1000W JL Audio Amp / 2 - 12' JBL P1222's / Pioneer In-dash Nav

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