VQ37HR block limitations?

G37Sam · 09-02-2009, 08:02 PM

Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that.

Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol

!xoible · 09-02-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingDavid

Well I cleared myself up earlier. I meant 400 to the crank, not to the wheel.

People are hitting 340-350 whp (if drivetrain loss is %15 it's about 391-403 to the crank) with just I/H/E and a tune. Stock intake manifold, stock throttle bodies, a few other stock things that MIGHT bump the power to 400 CRANK hp or get very close. At least I would think so.

It comes with 336 hp and the intakes and exhausts on the 370 are extremely restricted. This VQ is different from all of the other ones. It's bigger. Comes with a bottom end that, according to paper, lol, can handle 1000whp. Has a different type of valve control unlike what I've ever seen in a vehicle.

But here's the specifics on the motor and where that 1000whp claim came from. http://www.370 z.com/MagazineArticles/tabid/57/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/14/370Z-Engine-VQ37VHR.aspx (take out the space after "370")

sounds good! i think if it hits 300 rwhp i'd be happy

Hi-TecDesigns · 09-03-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !xoible

i think if it hits 300 rwhp i'd be happy

shooting for the stars, are we?

!xoible · 09-03-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-TecDesigns

shooting for the stars, are we?

hahaha i dont even got a Z

kannibul · 09-03-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that.

Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol

That, and money, are exactly why I plan to wait a few years before doing any sort of Forced Induction. Let the nuts that have the money to do so, do so and blow up their stuff...if they don't, good for them!

bullitt5897 · 09-03-2009, 12:44 PM

Didnt GTM just Release a G37 coupe pushing 611 rwhp and 474ft/lbs just a lil while back on a stock block? Thats roughly 700+hp at the crank!!! We really need GTM or Forged performance to step in here and tell us what they have experienced with the G37's and that should give us an indication of the capabilities of our engines...

kannibul · 09-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Besides the block, there's other limitations for RWHP - clutch/torque converter, transmission, driveshaft, differential, differential shafts/cv joints...

bullitt5897 · 09-03-2009, 01:20 PM

Limitation nahhh breaking points yes! The car will put down the power but the real question is at what point do those parts go kaboom and fail?

JoeD · 09-03-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Besides the block, there's other limitations for RWHP - clutch/torque converter, transmission, driveshaft, differential, differential shafts/cv joints...

I will agree, however the limits of driveline components are more so a function of traction (too much of it). Given there are no issues with weakness in the driveline in stock form as you see sometimes in other cars, a Z with double/triple the stock HP won't necessarily break anything if the tires spin. Shock is what breaks parts, and that can happen in a huge HP-range.

Which begs the question...who has launched stock or bolt-on Z on proper drag-tires?

Orphan · 09-03-2009, 07:39 PM

Trans onwards is a lot easier to figure out than the engines limitations. The new 6 speed box seems to be beefy from all accounts so I don't see 500rwhp for FI applications being any real issue but stock clutch etc will have to go.

I know an engine builder near where I use to live who got 580rwhp out of an old 4L toyota v8 though it was a pretty serious build, for the same engine for street use he thinks around 480rwhp as the one he built wasn't really tuned for street use. Besides being an open deck the VQ37 is better in basically every way and makes substantially more power stock. Considering Cosworth was getting 380-400rwhp out of the VQ35 those number should be much easier with the VQ37 not to mention more usable with the VVEL.

As the stock BHP is 330ish 380-400bhp should be easy if not more. As for the M3 engine are you talking about the latest 4L V8? The problem with that engine is that its engineered to be perfect how it is and doesn't have much room to improve in its current form without going to larger valves and bigger bore etc where as the VQ37 seems to have plenty of room to move up stock.

I guess we can only wait and see but I would imagine we will see 340rwhp+ N/A in the next 6-12 months. All depends on the design of the std of the head and how far the VVEL can be pushed.

rbthirty · 09-04-2009, 05:39 AM

Hey

Curious to know what kind of limits the block would go to with the Darton MID sleeves and possibly a billet girdle (I know ERL performance make them for the VQ35)...

NIZMOZ · 09-04-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

Some of the sponsors/vendors on this site, not to vilify them, don't give a sh&t if you get a TT set up from them, and shortly thereafter you blow the motor despite them tuning it to "safe" levels of boost. They're here to make money.

They say 500hp is "safe." These vendors are gonna tell you anything you wanna hear. I honestly don't think 500hp streetable is realistic, more like 400hp. C'mon, a VQ motor is a corporate motor in a truck, passenger car, minivan and whatever Nissan makes. On the other hand, a Ferrari motor is engineered to take 12:1 compression ratio, use certain alloys for its block, etc. to get their motors to pump out 500hp all motor, they're high-performance motors per se whereas VQ's aren't.

But the caveat is that you know that building your motor aftermarket is risky despite anything vendors say is "safe."

The HR was designed after the GT-R motor with some of the same internals. The HR does handle boost just fine. If the VQ35DE can handle 400 safe, the HR can easily handle that safely. 450-500 I would say is the safe zone for any HR powered car, 3.5 and 3.7.

The other cars in Nissan's line up are not the same engine, yes they are a VQ, but they are completely different.

kannibul · 09-04-2009, 08:06 AM

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I've seen several posts noting that an open deck is something desirable (and I assume this is in relation to the interface between the cylinder heads and the cylinders/block) - why?

Hi-TecDesigns · 09-04-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I've seen several posts noting that an open deck is something desirable (and I assume this is in relation to the interface between the cylinder heads and the cylinders/block) - why?

Depends upon what you're shooting for. An open deck allows for a more free flow of coolant around the cylinders, but a closed deck is stiffer and can handle more abuse from pistons that have more off-axis loads. Open decks are often easier to cast, but they're also often not as accurate tolerance-wise.

KingDavid · 09-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan

Trans onwards is a lot easier to figure out than the engines limitations. The new 6 speed box seems to be beefy from all accounts so I don't see 500rwhp for FI applications being any real issue but stock clutch etc will have to go.

I know an engine builder near where I use to live who got 580rwhp out of an old 4L toyota v8 though it was a pretty serious build, for the same engine for street use he thinks around 480rwhp as the one he built wasn't really tuned for street use. Besides being an open deck the VQ37 is better in basically every way and makes substantially more power stock. Considering Cosworth was getting 380-400rwhp out of the VQ35 those number should be much easier with the VQ37 not to mention more usable with the VVEL.

As the stock BHP is 330ish 380-400bhp should be easy if not more. As for the M3 engine are you talking about the latest 4L V8? The problem with that engine is that its engineered to be perfect how it is and doesn't have much room to improve in its current form without going to larger valves and bigger bore etc where as the VQ37 seems to have plenty of room to move up stock.

I guess we can only wait and see but I would imagine we will see 340rwhp+ N/A in the next 6-12 months. All depends on the design of the std of the head and how far the VVEL can be pushed.

I/H/E and a tune.

That was done a while ago, lol.

09-02-2009, 08:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 20	Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that. Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

09-03-2009, 12:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Didnt GTM just Release a G37 coupe pushing 611 rwhp and 474ft/lbs just a lil while back on a stock block? Thats roughly 700+hp at the crank!!! We really need GTM or Forged performance to step in here and tell us what they have experienced with the G37's and that should give us an indication of the capabilities of our engines... __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

09-03-2009, 01:20 PM	#23 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Limitation nahhh breaking points yes! The car will put down the power but the real question is at what point do those parts go kaboom and fail? __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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09-03-2009, 12:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 266	Besides the block, there's other limitations for RWHP - clutch/torque converter, transmission, driveshaft, differential, differential shafts/cv joints...

09-03-2009, 07:39 PM	#25 (permalink)
Orphan Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 13 Drives: SC400 Rep Power: 15	Trans onwards is a lot easier to figure out than the engines limitations. The new 6 speed box seems to be beefy from all accounts so I don't see 500rwhp for FI applications being any real issue but stock clutch etc will have to go. I know an engine builder near where I use to live who got 580rwhp out of an old 4L toyota v8 though it was a pretty serious build, for the same engine for street use he thinks around 480rwhp as the one he built wasn't really tuned for street use. Besides being an open deck the VQ37 is better in basically every way and makes substantially more power stock. Considering Cosworth was getting 380-400rwhp out of the VQ35 those number should be much easier with the VQ37 not to mention more usable with the VVEL. As the stock BHP is 330ish 380-400bhp should be easy if not more. As for the M3 engine are you talking about the latest 4L V8? The problem with that engine is that its engineered to be perfect how it is and doesn't have much room to improve in its current form without going to larger valves and bigger bore etc where as the VQ37 seems to have plenty of room to move up stock. I guess we can only wait and see but I would imagine we will see 340rwhp+ N/A in the next 6-12 months. All depends on the design of the std of the head and how far the VVEL can be pushed.

09-04-2009, 05:39 AM	#26 (permalink)
rbthirty Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1 Drives: Holden Rep Power: 15	Hey Curious to know what kind of limits the block would go to with the Darton MID sleeves and possibly a billet girdle (I know ERL performance make them for the VQ35)...

09-04-2009, 08:06 AM	#28 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 266	Maybe this is a dumb question, but I've seen several posts noting that an open deck is something desirable (and I assume this is in relation to the interface between the cylinder heads and the cylinders/block) - why?