Boosted Performance round 2 list

Nixlimited · 03-05-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

After having looked at the OEM aliminum crash bar and my GTM intercooler, I'd have to give the edge to the intercooler as a structural support. The OEM bar is just boxed AL, right? If that's the case, the IC will hold up better since it's got an internal structure to add some strength, right?

I believe the OEM crash bar is designed to direct force around the front of the car and down the frame (i.e. the length of the car). Look at how and where it attaches. There is no doubt in my mind that an intercooler will not perform as well in a crash as the factory, engineered crash bar.

Chuck33079 · 03-05-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

I believe the OEM crash bar is designed to direct force around the front of the car and down the frame (i.e. the length of the car). Look at how and where it attaches. There is no doubt in my mind that an intercooler will not perform as well in a crash as the factory, engineered crash bar.

I have looked at it. That's why I think it'll function quite well as a crash beam. It mounts to the same locations, and the internal structure of the core is going to give it more intenal support than the OEM bar assuming that's just square aluminum. I haven't seen one cut open, so I can't say that for sure. Then the only difference would be the slight curve of the OE bar as compared to the flat IC, right?

Obviously we'll never know for sure since nobody's about to crash test these things.

Nixlimited · 03-05-2014, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Obviously we'll never know for sure since nobody's about to crash test these things.

Let's hope at least!

I think one potential issue is the fact that the ICs are a bunch of welds holding various parts together (end-tanks, core, etc), whereas the crash beam is a contiguous piece of metal. The welds are going to be the weak point in the ICs I suspect. As soon as one lets go, then the force vectoring of the IC in a crash would be toast. It's one of the primary reasons I elected the GTM kit, since it keeps the crash bar. Unfortunately, that decision hasn't really panned out.

Chuck33079 · 03-05-2014, 10:18 AM

That's the rub- how strong are those welds to the endtanks and mounting tabs. Looked plenty strong, but who the hell knows, and I'm not about to send it somewhere for a round of destructive testing to find out. I will say it weighs a freaking ton, so I have no doubt it will serve just fine in low to moderate speed collisions.

jwick · 03-05-2014, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Let's hope at least!

I think one potential issue is the fact that the ICs are a bunch of welds holding various parts together (end-tanks, core, etc), whereas the crash beam is a contiguous piece of metal. The welds are going to be the weak point in the ICs I suspect. As soon as one lets go, then the force vectoring of the IC in a crash would be toast. It's one of the primary reasons I elected the GTM kit, since it keeps the crash bar. Unfortunately, that decision hasn't really panned out.

Sorry Sashsa for this thread jack...

However, weld material is always stronger than the base material (assuming the welder used the correct rod). When welding A992 (50ksi) material we call out a E70 rod which has a yield stregth of 70ksi, this is welding 101 and required by AWS D1.1 Structural Welding Code. If a weld is done properly than the material around it will yield first. That's why all of us structural engineers prefer to weld everything. You basically weld it and forget about it.

m3chhawk · 03-05-2014, 10:42 AM

You wouldn't have to crash test it. Just draw both in CAD and run an FEA analysis. The tabs on the intercooler won't transfer force to the frame anywhere near as well as the OEM crash bar does.

TopgunZ · 03-05-2014, 10:44 AM

This has nothing to do with how strong the material is. The intercooler could be a two in thick plate of steel and still would get pushed into the engine that would get pushed into the bay, if it wasn't attached to the frame.

The crash bar designed and bolted to the frame. On impact that bar takes the energy and puts it to the frame of the car therefore consuming the energy around the driver. The frame is a thousand times stronger than any intercooler. The car frame is rigid and you keep your legs.

Not saying the IC wont help, but it will be of minimal help to your body at high speeds.

Ok..lets get back to turbos!!

jwick · 03-05-2014, 10:47 AM

Soooo....who's going to be next to join the BP family? Last post I saw Sasha was going to build 2-3 kits in the next couple months. Who's garage are they going to?

G37sHKS · 03-05-2014, 10:51 AM

Ill be interested if he made 7AT kit.
Nothing wrong with my GTM kit and do not wanna sell it for anything else especially after I upgrade to GTX turbos 3 month ago.

But Iam a single turbo type guy

Chuck33079 · 03-05-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

This has nothing to do with how strong the material is. The intercooler could be a two in thick plate of steel and still would get pushed into the engine that would get pushed into the bay, if it wasn't attached to the frame.

The crash bar designed and bolted to the frame. On impact that bar takes the energy and puts it to the frame of the car therefore consuming the energy around the driver. The frame is a thousand times stronger than any intercooler. The car frame is rigid and you keep your legs.

But the IC is bolted to the same framerails that the OE crash beam is.

At least mine is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Ok..lets get back to turbos!!

Agreed.

Boosted Performance · 03-05-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Soooo....who's going to be next to join the BP family? Last post I saw Sasha was going to build 2-3 kits in the next couple months. Who's garage are they going to?

Due to popular demand, I am building 5 kits right now. 4 are kind of already spoken for, and #5 will go on a local HR 350z as a part of test fitting.

In need to clone myself....maybe a couple of times. Time for a trip to GB I guess, and then I can check out the RH drive platforms at the same time.

On the crash bar part...I don't think the FMIC will be as strong as a properly designed/engineered structural OEM piece. I do plan to look at my options when it comes to this in the future.

TopgunZ · 03-05-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

But the IC is bolted to the same framerails that the OE crash beam is.

At least mine is.

Oh snap! I was unaware this kit is designed to bolt onto the frame.

Well in that case it would help much more than the usual top single bolt. But not "as good" as the oem bar. But still I would feel much better about this with that design.

Damn this kit! Why cant I find flaws!..lol

.. This is really an engineering marvel.

Chuck33079 · 03-05-2014, 11:36 AM

I've got a GTM kit, but every IC I've seen has used the same mounting locations. There really aren't many other places to bolt something big and heavy in the nose of the car.

TopgunZ · 03-05-2014, 11:42 AM

Lots of setups use this style.

Chuck33079 · 03-05-2014, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Lots of setups use this style.

Yeah, that's not going to stop a wet fart.

03-05-2014, 10:18 AM	#694 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	That's the rub- how strong are those welds to the endtanks and mounting tabs. Looked plenty strong, but who the hell knows, and I'm not about to send it somewhere for a round of destructive testing to find out. I will say it weighs a freaking ton, so I have no doubt it will serve just fine in low to moderate speed collisions. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

03-05-2014, 10:42 AM	#696 (permalink)
m3chhawk Track Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Kansas City Posts: 878 Drives: '11 370Z SPT 6MT BLK Rep Power: 24	You wouldn't have to crash test it. Just draw both in CAD and run an FEA analysis. The tabs on the intercooler won't transfer force to the frame anywhere near as well as the OEM crash bar does. jwick likes this. __________________ F.I. CF CBE \| Avant Garde M310 \| BC BR's \| ONEighty \| Status \| EvoR \| Stillen \| Whiteline \| B&M \| Bespoke Details Boosted Performance \| Precision Turbo \| Tial \| HKS \| Innovate Motorsports \| Bosch \| Treadstone \| Walbro \| UpRev \| Depo

03-05-2014, 10:44 AM	#697 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6833	This has nothing to do with how strong the material is. The intercooler could be a two in thick plate of steel and still would get pushed into the engine that would get pushed into the bay, if it wasn't attached to the frame. The crash bar designed and bolted to the frame. On impact that bar takes the energy and puts it to the frame of the car therefore consuming the energy around the driver. The frame is a thousand times stronger than any intercooler. The car frame is rigid and you keep your legs. Not saying the IC wont help, but it will be of minimal help to your body at high speeds. Ok..lets get back to turbos!! jwick likes this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

03-05-2014, 10:47 AM	#698 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465056	Soooo....who's going to be next to join the BP family? Last post I saw Sasha was going to build 2-3 kits in the next couple months. Who's garage are they going to? __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

03-05-2014, 10:51 AM	#699 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 20	Ill be interested if he made 7AT kit. Nothing wrong with my GTM kit and do not wanna sell it for anything else especially after I upgrade to GTX turbos 3 month ago. But Iam a single turbo type guy GaleForce likes this. __________________ G37 BUILD UNDER CONSTRUCTION

03-05-2014, 11:36 AM	#703 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	I've got a GTM kit, but every IC I've seen has used the same mounting locations. There really aren't many other places to bolt something big and heavy in the nose of the car. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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