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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Forced Induction (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/)
-   -   Boosted Performance single turbo build (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/52577-boosted-performance-single-turbo-build.html)

GaleForce 12-22-2012 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2073286)
So I got everything packed up....and then my back decided to pack it in. It locked up pretty good, so I am a happy camper at the moment beacuse I am hopped up on robax. Just can't get a break, getting old I guess. So a bit of a delay, but I should have all the packages out on Monday.
Pick up a Tens machine and ice. It helps my back big time!

XwChriswX 12-23-2012 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2072829)
Singlet turbo, but with a twin scroll turbine housing. This gives you efficiency of a single turbo (more efficient than twin), with the benefits of a twin turbo, where the exhaust pulses between the banks are seperated. With the twin scroll the two banks are seperated untill the exhaust gases reach the down pipe. To take it one step further, the OEM and aftermarket headers have equal length primaries, and this creates the desired scavenging effect, because each combution pulse is seperated from the next. Something a log style manifold simply can't do, due to the design and space constrictions.

The twin scroll will also outspool an open inlet turbine housing every time. This gives it a great advantage over the top mount open housing turbo kits as well.

The only way to avoid pulse interferance (increase efficiency) with a twin turbo is to build a tubular manifold where you have equal length primaries feeding the turbo. Here is a perfect example...R35 kits are now being build with tubular manifold, going away from the log style in order to reach the power levels not seen before:

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/i...it-2-01-01.jpg

Greddy has also switched from the cast/log manifold and gone to tubular...for the same reason.

So that is one of the big advantages...efficieny.

Price is the other big factor. For starters you will save about $500 with the twin scroll single kit that is capable of producing the same power as a Stage II twin turbo kit. On top of that the twin scroll single kit comes with a complete oil cooler kit ($400 retail) value, larger fuel pump 340lph (vs 255) larger injectors 750cc (vs 600cc) as well as an oil pan spacer ($100) to increase the oil volume by 1qt. So that alone will add up to another $1,000 or so. Some nice clutch/flywheel money.

Simplicity is another thing to consider. No need to pull the engine, get a new washer fulid reserovoir, and removal of many OEM components is minimal. Car can be returned back to stock in a weekend, without ever knowing there was a turbo kit installed. Because of the "bolt on" simpicity the install cost is much less, $1,200 on the single kit, and about $2,500-$3,000 with any twin kit mainly due to the need for engine removal.

For results, you can go the the first post on the first page. There is a dyno sheet posted there.
Thank you! :tup: This is exactly what I was looking for. I've seen some of the other Single turbo kits, and was just curious as to the differences between yours/theirs/TT, and this explains a lot. Especially in terms of what I'm "hoping" to achieve when I go FI.

I'm guessing with the Single turbo, it spools up much quicker, does that have any effect on initial response with wheel slip or anything?

Can't wait to see Install Threads/Videos/Dynos/Strip runs and drive by's.

I will read back through the development of this kit, you've really got me intrigued. :tup:


Now you were talking about clutch/flywheel upgrades for the 6MT, of course. For the 7AT, are you looking at requiring/will be needing upgrades there as well? I know GTM has AT upgrades, but as with anything else with the GTM branding, it's going to be insanely expensive (but worth it). Are you expecting the 7AT guys to have to upgrade bits with this kit as well?

XwChriswX 12-23-2012 04:53 AM
:yawn: omg. I just spent 2 hours reading this entire 89 page thread. I'm even more <3 for this kit now. An amazing product, and a strong dedication to precision and meticulous craftsmanship and customer service. You're giving Tony from F.I. a run for his money on best customer service seen here :rolleyes: :tup:


After looking through it I only had 1 real question/observation:

The 2 cars that had posted pics of installs both had the Stock sway bars. Has there been anyone with aftermarket sway bars looking to install this kit (preferably Whiteline since that's what I have)? Only reason I ask is for clearance between the sways/oil fittings/lines/etc.?

And lastly, can someone go kick down the door of that guy who said he'd drop off his 7AT with you and steal borrow his keys/car so you can get under it and see if it is impossible to rig up a kit for the 7AT...

Perhaps your next batch of 6 should be for 7AT drivers... :stirthepot:

G37sHKS 12-23-2012 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2072829)
Price is the other big factor. For starters you will save about $500 with the twin scroll single kit that is capable of producing the same power as a Stage II twin turbo kit. On top of that the twin scroll single kit comes with a complete oil cooler kit ($400 retail) value, larger fuel pump 340lph (vs 255) larger injectors 750cc (vs 600cc) as well as an oil pan spacer ($100) to increase the oil volume by 1qt. So that alone will add up to another $1,000 or so. Some nice clutch/flywheel money.
Not only that. Your kit comes with down pipes with Wastegates.. While GTM doesn't even comes with normal test pipes :shakes head:.. this alone is $1200 value

Its funny how GTM advertise their stage 2 kit for "600" WHP when their kit runs out of fuel at 500 WHP :bowrofl:

The 3rd reason why this kit is better because this is a true full kit and true full bolts on! and here is why
This kit comes with Oil pan spacer for turbo lines, while gtm you either have to drill your stock pan or purchase a spacer.:shakes head:

This kit comes with Oil cooler, GTM kit doesn't come with that so you cant go to track with GTM kit otherwise say hello to overheat and goodbye to the engine.:shakes head:

This kit comes with large injectors and fuel pump to be able to make "600" hp without running out of fuel. While GTM comes with 600 injectors and 255 that are known to max out at 500 WHP.:owned:

And there are many other reasons but last and not least, when Boost performance gives you a lead time for kit. it will come in time or even before that! but with GTM? I don't even wanna talk about it :shakes head: :shakes head:

Don't get me wrong, I have GTM TT kit for my self but im just saying the true facts:tup:

Way to go Boosted Performance! :happydance:

GaleForce 12-23-2012 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XwChriswX (Post 2073669)
:yawn: omg. I just spent 2 hours reading this entire 89 page thread. I'm even more <3 for this kit now. An amazing product, and a strong dedication to precision and meticulous craftsmanship and customer service. You're giving Tony from F.I. a run for his money on best customer service seen here :rolleyes: :tup:


After looking through it I only had 1 real question/observation:

The 2 cars that had posted pics of installs both had the Stock sway bars. Has there been anyone with aftermarket sway bars looking to install this kit (preferably Whiteline since that's what I have)? Only reason I ask is for clearance between the sways/oil fittings/lines/etc.?

And lastly, can someone go kick down the door of that guy who said he'd drop off his 7AT with you and steal borrow his keys/car so you can get under it and see if it is impossible to rig up a kit for the 7AT...

Perhaps your next batch of 6 should be for 7AT drivers... :stirthepot:
I'll let you know how it fits. I have Whitelines.

Boosted Performance 12-23-2012 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XwChriswX (Post 2073669)
:yawn: omg. I just spent 2 hours reading this entire 89 page thread. I'm even more <3 for this kit now. An amazing product, and a strong dedication to precision and meticulous craftsmanship and customer service. You're giving Tony from F.I. a run for his money on best customer service seen here :rolleyes: :tup:


After looking through it I only had 1 real question/observation:

The 2 cars that had posted pics of installs both had the Stock sway bars. Has there been anyone with aftermarket sway bars looking to install this kit (preferably Whiteline since that's what I have)? Only reason I ask is for clearance between the sways/oil fittings/lines/etc.?

And lastly, can someone go kick down the door of that guy who said he'd drop off his 7AT with you and steal borrow his keys/car so you can get under it and see if it is impossible to rig up a kit for the 7AT...

Perhaps your next batch of 6 should be for 7AT drivers... :stirthepot:

The aftermarket sway bars have the same shape as OEM, and are only a bit larger diameter. This should not be a problem at all. The oil fittings are also way up there with the OEM oil pressure sensor, so there is no chance of contact.

Now that you now know that this kit does not work with the 7AT. I will try to do something about this in the spring/summer next year. If I can find the donor car, by all means I would do my best to make this happen. The manifold will have to be different for sure, and I am not sure if I can keep the twin scroll for it. The OEM 7AT oil pan is so large, and takes up a lot of valuable space under the car. I have been known to perform miracles though....so you never know.




Quote:
Originally Posted by G37sHKS (Post 2073682)
Not only that. Your kit comes with down pipes with Wastegates.. While GTM doesn't even comes with normal test pipes :shakes head:.. this alone is $1200 value

Its funny how GTM advertise their stage 2 kit for "600" WHP when their kit runs out of fuel at 500 WHP :bowrofl:

The 3rd reason why this kit is better because this is a true full kit and true full bolts on! and here is why
This kit comes with Oil pan spacer for turbo lines, while gtm you either have to drill your stock pan or purchase a spacer.:shakes head:

This kit comes with Oil cooler, GTM kit doesn't come with that so you cant go to track with GTM kit otherwise say hello to overheat and goodbye to the engine.:shakes head:

This kit comes with large injectors and fuel pump to be able to make "600" hp without running out of fuel. While GTM comes with 600 injectors and 255 that are known to max out at 500 WHP.:owned:

And there are many other reasons but last and not least, when Boost performance gives you a lead time for kit. it will come in time or even before that! but with GTM? I don't even wanna talk about it :shakes head: :shakes head:

Don't get me wrong, I have GTM TT kit for my self but im just saying the true facts:tup:

Way to go Boosted Performance! :happydance:
You are right, these are the things that a lot of people miss when looking at/purchasing these kits.

IMO, if it is needed, why not make it a part of the kit. It saves the customer the run around and frustration. When I say this kit will support 650whp in the Stage I form (that is over 700hp as advetised by others, since they advetise flywheel) out of the box, I mean that because I have customers that have done it. No further upgrades to the kit are needed, of course other than the turbine to support the flow. That however is only about $250, and takes 30 minutes to swap (5min if the turbo is out).

I think it is also important to mention service if something does go wrong. I have a local friend who blew one of his turbos on the APS TT kit on his G35. The bill on that: $4,500. The shop pulled the engine out to remove the turbo, so that set him back $3,000 alone. He ened up getting both turbos rebuilt...and the kit only had 11K miles on it. The turbo that comes with the BP kit cost about $450 to rebuild (by the manufacturer, Precision turbo), and I can't see a shop charging more than 2.5 hours labor for removal install.

OldBoy 12-23-2012 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2073751)
Now that you now know that this kit does not work with the 7AT. I will try to do something about this in the spring/summer next year. If I can find the donor car, by all means I would do my best to make this happen. The manifold will have to be different for sure, and I am not sure if I can keep the twin scroll for it. The OEM 7AT oil pan is so large, and takes up a lot of valuable space under the car. I have been known to perform miracles though....so you never know.
Perhaps it would be easier to make a different oil pan for the auto trans? Or relocate most of it to the side or elsewhere? Integrate it to an oil cooler to give you the same volume of oil with a flatter trans oil pan? You'd need to know how deep in the oil pan parts of the valve body go. Never pulled off the pan on those trans and can't seem to find a decent photo of the trans so don't know if its feasible or not, just throwing it out there but I'm sure you've already thought about it.

Boosted Performance 12-23-2012 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBoy (Post 2073851)
Perhaps it would be easier to make a different oil pan for the auto trans? Or relocate most of it to the side or elsewhere? Integrate it to an oil cooler to give you the same volume of oil with a flatter trans oil pan? You'd need to know how deep in the oil pan parts of the valve body go. Never pulled off the pan on those trans and can't seem to find a decent photo of the trans so don't know if its feasible or not, just throwing it out there but I'm sure you've already thought about it.
It's not just the oil pan, it is the entire castin of the transmission, that is large:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1e6f9929.jpg

VS manual:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/IMG_7492.jpg


You can see that the turbine housing with these turbos is rather large..this is what allows this kit to make the claimed power.

It would be difficult to do, but I can always try.

Cell 12-23-2012 11:51 AM
What about a smaller turbo setup for the auto guys? Or twin turbo kit with double twin scrolls.

OldBoy 12-23-2012 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2073883)
It's not just the oil pan, it is the entire castin of the transmission, that is large:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1e6f9929.jpg

VS manual:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/IMG_7492.jpg


You can see that the turbine housing with these turbos is rather large..this is what allows this kit to make the claimed power.

It would be difficult to do, but I can always try.
Yeah, I noticed that photo not too long after posting. Guess it's not gonna be that easy. It's a bummer for the AT guys that those auto trans really do take all the space available.

Boosted Performance 12-23-2012 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cell (Post 2073891)
What about a smaller turbo setup for the auto guys? Or twin turbo kit with double twin scrolls.
I had thought about a smaller turbo, but can't really do anything without a car at hand.

Double twin croll...that would defeat the purpose and simplicity of the systems. You also need at least 4 cylinders for that to work...so a V8 with an alternating bank combustions cycle.

If a local opportunity comes up for me to look at this option, I will. As it sits now, I can't keep up with the demand of the 3 rurbo kit options I offer for the VQ's. I am going to start building 4 kits for the 350z guys right away. After that it looks like I can easly build another 6 370z kits, and those would be gone instantly.

Nut_N_Much 12-23-2012 04:26 PM
My god man, I just read through each page of your thread and it was the best read I have had in a long time. It also pisses me off that I didn't have the patience to wait and get your kit. I haven't even installed my Stillen yet and I want to sell it already.

Great build, you have some mad skills. Can't wait to see the 7AT thread come to light.

XwChriswX 12-23-2012 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2073883)
It's not just the oil pan, it is the entire castin of the transmission, that is large:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1e6f9929.jpg




You can see that the turbine housing with these turbos is rather large..this is what allows this kit to make the claimed power.

It would be difficult to do, but I can always try.
This may sound extreme/crazy/ridiculous, but what about potentially replacing that black cross bar with some bar that has the turbo mounted under it, or would it be too low?

If completely impossible, understood. Just really would love a kit for a 7AT. :icon17:

wheee! 12-23-2012 08:00 PM
:facepalm:

We might be flogging a dead horse here. The whole purpose of this kit was power and simplicity. The auto transmission is just too big!!

wheee! 12-23-2012 08:02 PM
Having said that, I understand your desire to have this kit!

XwChriswX 12-23-2012 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheee! (Post 2074322)
:facepalm:

We might be flogging a dead horse here. The whole purpose of this kit was power and simplicity. The auto transmission is just too big!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheee! (Post 2074325)
Having said that, I understand your desire to have this kit!
Simplicity, though an auto is "simpler" than an MT. :icon17: :p :tup:

Boosted Performance 12-24-2012 09:36 AM
I will try to get my car (350z m/t) on the lift in the next few days (if my back feels better) and see what the options are.

Should give me a very good idea on the possibility for an AT configuration.

gbrettin 12-24-2012 01:09 PM
Maybe I missed it somewhere... but does anyone have video if this turbo kit in action. :) I'd love to see a dyno pull and some video of how the kit runs on the road.

gbrettin 12-24-2012 01:15 PM
Also, thank you for considering options for the AT 370z.

Boosted Performance 12-24-2012 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrettin (Post 2075210)
Maybe I missed it somewhere... but does anyone have video if this turbo kit in action. :) I'd love to see a dyno pull and some video of how the kit runs on the road.
370z Boosted Performance Single Turbo - YouTube



370z Boosted Performance Single Turbo - YouTube

wheee! 12-24-2012 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XwChriswX (Post 2074330)
Simplicity, though an auto is "simpler" than an MT. :icon17: :p :tup:
Have you seen the inside of an auto trans?? ! :roflpuke2:

ENT-Z 12-24-2012 05:51 PM
I received the fuel pump, BOV, waste gates, spark plugs and the gorgeous turbo today!

GaleForce 12-24-2012 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT-Z (Post 2075628)
I received the fuel pump, BOV, waste gates, spark plugs and the gorgeous turbo today!
:pics:

Nice christmas gift! Someone must have been a good boy. ;)

Nothing here. It'll show after christmas I'm sure. :tup:

elperuano 12-24-2012 07:22 PM
Awesome vids, would love to see what this kit can really do. Torque could be waaaay better. I know it's part of tuning but the old DE motors held torque to bout 420. These motors can hold way more. I'd like to see a real good tune on this kit. Everything else seems Greg about it, don't hold the power back!

XwChriswX 12-24-2012 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheee! (Post 2075460)
Have you seen the inside of an auto trans?? ! :roflpuke2:
AT: Complex internals, simple operation. :driving:

MT: Simple internals, complex operation. :icon14:


Comparing one mechanically to the other, not based on skill. :tup:

Boosted Performance 12-25-2012 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elperuano (Post 2075763)
Awesome vids, would love to see what this kit can really do. Torque could be waaaay better. I know it's part of tuning but the old DE motors held torque to bout 420. These motors can hold way more. I'd like to see a real good tune on this kit. Everything else seems Greg about it, don't hold the power back!
Like you said, torque is a result of tuning. A lot of tuners fee like the 400ft/tq is a really safe number on a VQ37, so it becomes the "norm" so to speak. We had 9psi of boost at about 3600rpm, so for sure the torque could be pushed way up...but why risk it.

I have customer with the DE making very close to 600ft/tq at 18-19psi, so the 62mm turbo is very capable. Perhaps a customer with a built motor will purchase this kit with the 67mm turbo, and push it hard....there may even be an insentive for somebody with an already built engine.

JMac88 12-25-2012 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elperuano (Post 2075763)
Awesome vids, would love to see what this kit can really do. Torque could be waaaay better. I know it's part of tuning but the old DE motors held torque to bout 420. These motors can hold way more. I'd like to see a real good tune on this kit. Everything else seems Greg about it, don't hold the power back!
Sebz tuned my car, he told me not to push much more than 400 tq on the stock block...

Do you have any info on people pushing more safely?

Glokwork 12-25-2012 01:33 PM
Still on stock block here with stock clutch/csc

Precision 6266
551whp/482wtq@10.6psi

elperuano 12-25-2012 01:34 PM
I'm pushing 496 safely with my tune from Jon @ Z1. 5k miles boosted n she sees full boost EVERY time. I drive pretty hard, lot of street fun. As I said the DE motors were good to 429 before rods went. These motors r stronger so not sure why people seem to stop at the safe point of the old DE block. Christian also is running good torque. I think I even seen superchargers with the same amount of torque... I guess the crowd here is different.

sfearl1 12-25-2012 03:35 PM
I'll push the limit of the stock block when I get the kit :tup:

elperuano 12-25-2012 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfearl1 (Post 2076664)
I'll push the limit of the stock block when I get the kit :tup:
My man!

blackonorange 12-25-2012 07:21 PM
I wonder how the z stacks up against other big boys at these power levels

GaleForce 12-28-2012 06:30 PM
I received a package in the mail today and I just had to dust off my camera equipment to take some proper shots for my build thread.

Here's a sample,

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8...896b9b36_c.jpg
IMG_7689 by J M Gale, on Flickr

Jiaim 12-29-2012 08:46 AM
woot !

make sahsa some good commercial material :)

Alstann 01-01-2013 11:26 PM
I'm not sure if anyone knows, but I feel like the FI TDX midpipe connector with the 4 bolts is extremely similar, if not identical to the HKS Hi Power:

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...z/DSC03696.jpg

Kinda hard to see, but I wonder if they are the same? I'm looking into getting this kit later this year, and I was curious if I have to give up how nice my exhaust already is. :driving:

Boosted Performance 01-01-2013 11:31 PM
^^Sorry but that will not bolt up to the down pipe used with the F.I exhaust system. The two bolt flanges are inverse of what I see there....where the Y-pipe bolts up.

chrischhorn 01-02-2013 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2089338)
^^Sorry but that will not bolt up to the down pipe used with the F.I exhaust system. The two bolt flanges are inverse of what I see there....where the Y-pipe bolts up.
Hey Sasha, how big of a hassle would it be to change the flanges on the downpipes? As I will be installing Momentum headers for the 350z DE motor, I know the cat flanges would be different. Would this be able to be something you could custom make for me or would I just need to swap back to 370z HR headers?

Boosted Performance 01-02-2013 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischhorn (Post 2089419)
Hey Sasha, how big of a hassle would it be to change the flanges on the downpipes? As I will be installing Momentum headers for the 350z DE motor, I know the cat flanges would be different. Would this be able to be something you could custom make for me or would I just need to swap back to 370z HR headers?
Changing them on my end would not be a big deal. However, I am not sure how the DE headers fit on a VHR engine, and if the flanges sit in the same location at the same angle. I would assume they do, since the same turbo cast manifolds are used on both platforms.

I would be able to check the fitmen on my own 350z as well, since everything on that end should be the same geometrically.

Sh0velMan 01-02-2013 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2090114)
Changing them on my end would not be a big deal. However, I am not sure how the DE headers fit on a VHR engine, and if the flanges sit in the same location at the same angle. I would assume they do, since the same turbo cast manifolds are used on both platforms.

I would be able to check the fitmen on my own 350z as well, since everything on that end should be the same geometrically.
I think the collector flange sits in a slightly different location, that's why Z1 had to make special test pipes to reach the exhaust... I could be totally wrong, but it doesn't make sense why they'd have to make special TP's for them otherwise.

Edit: I can attest to the fact that 350z DE longtubes do fit our cars on a case by case basis though. At least the flanges are in the right spots. (The primaries themselves may interfere with other components though, the particular set we tested fit fine however)

wheee! 01-02-2013 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alstann (Post 2089337)
I'm not sure if anyone knows, but I feel like the FI TDX midpipe connector with the 4 bolts is extremely similar, if not identical to the HKS Hi Power:

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...z/DSC03696.jpg

Kinda hard to see, but I wonder if they are the same? I'm looking into getting this kit later this year, and I was curious if I have to give up how nice my exhaust already is. :driving:
That picture ^ actually shows the flanges upside down (bottom of the car view). This is the correct orientation showing the top of the exhaust and the way it sits under the car (I have this exhaust on my car).

http://www.the370z.com/members/wheee...1-img-0316.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/wheee...s-hi-power.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted Performance (Post 2089338)
^^Sorry but that will not bolt up to the down pipe used with the F.I exhaust system. The two bolt flanges are inverse of what I see there....where the Y-pipe bolts up.
I'm pretty sure they are the same flanges Sasha, however, they may be in a different position (distance) than the the FI system....
I can always bring the car by in the Spring to have you check it out for any custom HKS builds you have orders pending for. :tup:


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