GTM Stage 2 S/C on Meth 507whp/357wtq

Armonster · 12-13-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

If I'm correct, a stock 370Z is meant to run on 98 octane.

The SC Kits aren't?

In the U.S., premium gas is typically either 91 or 93 octane, depending on the state. A stock Z requires 91. So to answer your question, no.

GUTCH · 12-13-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armonster

In the U.S., premium gas is typically either 91 or 93 octane, depending on the state. A stock Z requires 91. So to answer your question, no.

Interesting. I just looked up the Australian specs and it states:

"Recommended fuel type - Premium Unleaded 95 RON or higher (for optimum performance use 98 RON fuel)"

Anyone know how this impacts on the SC kits if at all?

Nixlimited · 12-13-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

Interesting. I just looked up the Australian specs and it states:

"Recommended fuel type - Premium Unleaded 95 RON or higher (for optimum performance use 98 RON fuel)"

Anyone know how this impacts on the SC kits if at all?

The US and everywhere else calculate their octane levels differently. I believe that US calcs (e.g. 91) correspond to slightly higher RON numbers.

From Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: "Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel."

Mike@GTM · 12-13-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Love the fender liner, very nice! Are you going to have any videos of this car by chance?

We do not have any videos as we were pressed for time on this project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosstick

Pricing for the Meth kit please!

We'll be putting together a package and adding it to our website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Impressive car. My question for the GTM guys is what (if any) benefit would you get from injecting water only? That's what I am interested in doing basically to deter detonation and help with cooling the engine. As great as water/meth is, I can get water anywhere, and I am not interested in keeping stocks of meth and water. Since I live in SoCal, I don't really have a freezing issue.

Injecting just water will only improve knock resistance. The methanol will lower intake air temperatures more than just water alone in addition to having a higher knock resistance than gasoline. Jordo and I had a good discussion in a different thread that went into more detail.

If you are doing water/methanol or just straight water, you MUST use DISTILLED water! Any dissolved solids will clog the injectors over time! Think about how often you have to clean/replace the aerator screen in your faucets at home...especially in SoCal where we have nasty, hard water that is barely potable. You do not want that dissolved lime and crap in your motor do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

Interesting. I just looked up the Australian specs and it states:

"Recommended fuel type - Premium Unleaded 95 RON or higher (for optimum performance use 98 RON fuel)"

Anyone know how this impacts on the SC kits if at all?

Like Nix said, we Americans rate our fuel on the conservative side. Our 91 octane is comparable to your 95 octane and our 93 octane is comparable to your 98 octane.

As far as how it would impact the S/C kit, you would run a little richer on higher octane fuel as it would have less propensity to fully combust. Therefore, you would have a conservative tune for your conditions...nothing wrong with that.

milo · 12-13-2011, 01:53 PM

NIce, I ran the Aquamist HSF-5 kit on my Evo. Probably the best meth/water injection kit out there.

kosstick · 12-13-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

We do not have any videos as we were pressed for time on this project.

We'll be putting together a package and adding it to our website.

Injecting just water will only improve knock resistance. The methanol will lower intake air temperatures more than just water alone in addition to having a higher knock resistance than gasoline. Jordo and I had a good discussion in a different thread that went into more detail.

If you are doing water/methanol or just straight water, you MUST use DISTILLED water! Any dissolved solids will clog the injectors over time! Think about how often you have to clean/replace the aerator screen in your faucets at home...especially in SoCal where we have nasty, hard water that is barely potable. You do not want that dissolved lime and crap in your motor do you?

Like Nix said, we Americans rate our fuel on the conservative side. Our 91 octane is comparable to your 95 octane and our 93 octane is comparable to your 98 octane.

As far as how it would impact the S/C kit, you would run a little richer on higher octane fuel as it would have less propensity to fully combust. Therefore, you would have a conservative tune for your conditions...nothing wrong with that.

You currently have a HFS-3 aqua mist on your website. is it the same?

Nixlimited · 12-13-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Injecting just water will only improve knock resistance. The methanol will lower intake air temperatures more than just water alone in addition to having a higher knock resistance than gasoline. Jordo and I had a good discussion in a different thread that went into more detail.

If you are doing water/methanol or just straight water, you MUST use DISTILLED water! Any dissolved solids will clog the injectors over time! Think about how often you have to clean/replace the aerator screen in your faucets at home...especially in SoCal where we have nasty, hard water that is barely potable. You do not want that dissolved lime and crap in your motor do you?

Just to be clear, my understanding is that injecting water should improve knock resistance and lower IAT as well as allow you to (in theory at least) run a leaner AFR since you can replace fuel with water for cylinder cooling. Water has a significantly higher specific heat capacity than any sort of fuel which makes it phenomenal for cooling (as compared to say gas). I definitely understand that you need to run distilled water only, but like I said, that's available anywhere and it's cheap. Meth mixes aren't.

Another consideration is the fact that meth is a fuel so *I believe* you have to tune the fueling more than with just water. With multiple maps this may not really be an issue, but I strongly prefer simplicity.

I do realize that you don't have the added power potential when you run just water and no meth, but my goal with a water injection system would be safety margin, not additional WHP. But that's just me.

In any event, congrats on the awesome build!

Mike@GTM · 12-13-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosstick

You currently have a HFS-3 aqua mist on your website. is it the same?

Yes, and no. The kit on our website is the basic kit. The one we'll be adding has the additional tees, nozzles, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Just to be clear, my understanding is that injecting water should improve knock resistance and lower IAT as well as allow you to (in theory at least) run a leaner AFR since you can replace fuel with water for cylinder cooling. Water has a significantly higher specific heat capacity than any sort of fuel which makes it phenomenal for cooling (as compared to say gas). I definitely understand that you need to run distilled water only, but like I said, that's available anywhere and it's cheap. Meth mixes aren't.

Another consideration is the fact that meth is a fuel so *I believe* you have to tune the fueling more than with just water. With multiple maps this may not really be an issue, but I strongly prefer simplicity.

I do realize that you don't have the added power potential when you run just water and no meth, but my goal with a water injection system would be safety margin, not additional WHP. But that's just me.

In any event, congrats on the awesome build!

Yes, injecting water does lower IAT, but meth does it better. True, water has a high heat capacity, but methanol evaporates faster and it's the change of state from a liquid to a gas that absorbs lots of heat (methanol boils at a lower temperature than water).

You don't necessarily *have* to tune for it, but it is beneficial to do so. Anyway, water injection is perfectly fine for what you want.

So, when are you going to be doing this build?

Nixlimited · 12-14-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Yes, injecting water does lower IAT, but meth does it better. True, water has a high heat capacity, but methanol evaporates faster and it's the change of state from a liquid to a gas that absorbs lots of heat (methanol boils at a lower temperature than water).

You don't necessarily *have* to tune for it, but it is beneficial to do so. Anyway, water injection is perfectly fine for what you want.

So, when are you going to be doing this build?

No arguments with that! Well, I am picking my car up on the 27th. So, after a full break-in and a little financial recovery from the down payment, I will be up there to see you guys. I decided to do the brakes on my car before I even picked it up so there went some of my mod money, haha.

GUTCH · 12-14-2011, 09:54 AM

Is water or water/meth injection recommended if one is using 98 RON fuel or is this just an optional extra?

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12-13-2011, 01:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
milo Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: ATX Posts: 38 Drives: Z Rep Power: 16	NIce, I ran the Aquamist HSF-5 kit on my Evo. Probably the best meth/water injection kit out there.

12-14-2011, 09:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
GUTCH Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 138 Drives: 2011 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 16	Is water or water/meth injection recommended if one is using 98 RON fuel or is this just an optional extra?