hmmmmmmmmm

not a bad idea but we are dealing with time now and i think the stock will be the way to go as the test car shouwed good gains.

Throw it by Sam in the morning and see what he thinks :tup:

It should be faster to modify a set of HFC's rather than replace headers and stock cats.

Meaning no one can even tune the maps or they can edit the values but have no idea what they are doing...?

If the former, that's going to make FI a PITA to tune...

Shumby, i feel for you. But have no fear my brother from the great white north, Sam will make it right.
Have faith in GTM.
Keep us posted.
im sure that your wife still loves you and wants you to come home for some comforting and loving.
You desirve that for being the first one to use these mods.

Z

The cams aren't even controlled by the same ECU as the engine. VVEL has its very own "ECU" that gets a single can bus data line from the engine ECU, then makes the adjustments to the cam duration and lift based on that data. It makes things a bit more complicated that just some editing on the tuning program everyone is using.

Now for the real questions ... how many anniversaries does Shumby have ahead of him before his wife will finally let this go? :rofl2:

good luck on both accounts

^^^ lol


thanks for adding that info. Good to hear it from someone in the know.

Really??? Huh... I had no idea. Still learning...:ugh2:

The GTM kit is untunable?

where did you come up with that idea?

Man this really sucks, sure you'll still make a lot of power with stock cats and headers but everything comes down to the tune. If the tuning is limited it will have a snowball effect. I applaud you guys for being the pioneer and still making good #'s, if anything its a prequel on what the Z is really capable of. However I'm going to hold off on any intake mods other than drop in filters or power adders until VVEL is cracked. Unfortunately many tuners/manufacturers are pre occupied with making $ through basic bolt ons and INITIAL F.I. kits, looks like the one who remains patient may have a lot to gain.

:wtf:
Are you just writing random thoughts that come to your brain or are you logically thinking at all?

This is what I got from Uprev yesterday when I brought up VVEL again.

Their reply makes sense. I mean the VVEL allows for perfect and continuously variable cam timing all throughout the powerband so "cracking" it would be useless. If the LTH's are not allowing backpressure to be produced then I wouldn't really blame F.I or GTM for this issue. I'm willing to bet Stillen will run into the same issue if they attempt to tune their kit with LTH's and CBE pre-installed.

Maybe some catted LTH's would allow for some backpressure build up and thus retain pressure in the chamber? I guess someone will need to test this out and see if any gains are made versus stock headers and test pipes combo.

Great info theDreamer +1 rep.

So now we need to knock on some cam manufactures door.

Shumby your in good hands. I'm sure you'll have a big smile on your trip back home.

Edit: Don't for get the DIAMOND ring :tup:

If the GTM SC kit is having problems with a LTH with no cats and not building boost ......... is there going to be a problem with running stock headers and aftermarket HFC's and a larger diameter CBE? I do believe that Stillen and GTM have tested their SC kits on stock cats and a larger CBE and have shown good results. But I don't believe they have completed any tests with aftermarket HFC's.

This is going to be a interesting read on what the outcome is going to be for both GTM's and Stillen's SC kits. I hope that the final outcome isn't that we all have to have stock HFC's and stock headers to have a SC kit ..... that wouldn't be nice and in my mind it would prevent some serious gains with a free flowing exhaust and HFC's. Plus, with the extra fuel/air from the SC boosted intake flow, the stock cats would eventually burn out or worse; plug off from the extra exhaust gases. I basically don't have much faith or generally like the performance of a stock catalytic converter in a stock or forced induction situation.

GTM and Stillen have some serious testing to do answer those questions and I'm awaiting to see the results.

This forum is so on edge over these supercharger kits, it was meant to raise some blood pressures... ;) I know it isn't true.

Ill take an extra 150 whp on stock headers and cats all day long with a SC.

me too at this point. however i do not think HFC will be an issues but RCZ will be the test pig on that one

ah much happier today. woot

why is that? :)

making power and tuning happening.

Must have the stock parts back in place then. Glad to see your mood has drasticly changed.

he will be testing with test pipes today too

Looking foward to this...

Glad to hear you in a better mood today Shumby, will be interested in how the test pipes respond.

Only if the values are not fixed according to load and it has some sort of advance/retard look-up tables it can follow to vary according to other conditions (i.e., similar to the ignition and fueling maps)... however, maps for valve timing are usually fixed and only vary by load.

Nice, so how much power is it making?

As awesome as these results are going to be it's still sad that we're restricted due to excessive exhaust flow. This may lead a few people to invest in built super high revving N/A setups and later go with a supercharger or maybe more TT because if you are going to invest that much into a car you don't want to hear about being limited to stock components. Personally I think if anyone can do it, its Smokey and Top Secret.

So far the only thing you cant do is LTHs so thats not really limiting anything or very little and if somone goes TT just because of that they deserve to pay the extra 6K.

^^^ lol true that

So hows the power now?

it's not the LTH IMO. I mean for the guys with G35 HR's and 350Z HR's wanting to run the LTH's with the SC setup then that shouldn't be a problem.

I agree I am doing more research on the issue. But my inital thought is the exhaust valves are opening too soon or staying open too late (basically while the intake valves are open. So a lot of the pressure the supercharger is making is going to waste. By advancing or retarding the cams you should be able to build more cylinder pressure possibly. But I need to do some more research.

This is a little more off the wall thought and I don't know if y'alls computers are even capable of this but, if your not getting enough fuel will the computer adjust the valves in order to maintain the as close to the proper a/f ratio as possible. In other words it releases air until it can get a small enough amount with the fuel it's providing.

I know I read an article talking about how technically your engines don't even need throttle bodies because of the vvel so vvel might be able to do a ton more than we currently think.

Again these are thoughts and could be totally off base but might lead to the right direction. A good place to look would be to look at the duty cycles of the pumps and injectors and see if they are within reasonable limits.

The TB's on the 3.7 stay open at 100% I believe. The VVEL actuator basically allows the valves to function like a TB by increasing/decreasing lift and duration, only using the valves and the eccentric cams rather than the actual TB's. Anyhow, until we can get control over VVEL, LTH's are a no no with SC setups I guess. Hence why I said LTH would most likely not be an issue with HR's since cam timing can be altered using Uprev, unlike the VHR. I guess we'll just have to wait and see till more testing is done. Thing is, even if Uprev does allow control over VVEL timing, I personally don't trust any Pro Tuner to be able to properly adjust it. good thing I have an HR G35 I guess lol.

So how much power is this car making now?????

I only know the untuned dyno numbers...lol... Guess it's a mystery until his review thread is posted when he gets back home.

ooh did he take the car home already?

Not yet.... Maybe Tuesday or something.

Oh ok, well I hope we can get some numbers before then!