STILLEN 370Z Supercharger System - Announcement!!!

Phimosis · 09-05-2010, 07:59 AM

My only criticism of the setup is not with the performance, the workmanship or the customer service. The issue is that my car doesn't perform as well as Stillen's press release car. I'm running headers, hi-flow cats, exhaust, 9 pounds of boost (what I was told, but haven't seen the actual number) and using a 1:3 mix of race fuel and premiun unleaded, yet my car doesn't reach the hp or torque numbers that Stillen advertises on their car running 91 octane with 7.9 psi of boost and all stock, except cat-back exhaust.

If they had a press release and advertised 400 hp and 310 lb/ft of torque, I would have still bought the Stillen kit over the GTM because of Stillen's reputation, racing history and number of vehicles they have modified. I would have still went the supercharger route over turbos because of the lower cost, the simpler conversion back to stock (if needed) and lower risk for engine failure. I say lower risk of failure not because of facts, but from anecdotal stories about catastrophic engine failures on after market turbo cars in general, and that whenever you go to higher hp numbers, you have a higher risk for failure just from internal stresses. Then, after modding my car and getting higher hp and tq numbers than their press release, I would have been ecstatic. But.... Since they advertised these higher numbers, I have been disappointed every step of the way when my car comes up short.

After reviewing the performance of other Stillen customers car, GTM's customer's performance and through analysis and introspection, I've concluded that that problem is not with my car; the problem is with Stillen's press release.

Am I saying that Stillen made the numbers up and that the dyno run is not real? No. They could tune my car to squeeze more power out of it by advancing the timing and leaning it out a little. I'm guessing that their press release was a leaner, more aggressively timed tune, but not a tune they would feel comfortable giving to the public because of the sheer numbers of failures that would inevitabley occur due to the corresponding increase in cylinder temperatures from the lean mix and the material fatigue/cracking that would occur with detonation from the advanced timing. It's no big deal to run your test mule like that for a few weeks of dyno testing, but it is a big deal to give that tune to the public, where some people will be tracking their car, doing top speed runs and other stunts that puts the engine in the upper rpm range under full boost for long periods. A lean/aggressively timed tune under those conditions will eat holes in pistons, crack piston skirts, break wrist pins, spin con rod or main bearings, etc.

The details that I am skeptical of are 1) their car made those numbers with only 7.9 psi of boost and 2) That they intended the tune that developed 438 whp to be distributed to the public and sent for CARB certification.

I want to apologize to Kyle in advance, for posting this. I like you and I don't want to hurt your business. All the people at Stillen have have been nothing less than excellent in how they treated me. And, both the workmanship and installation are excellent. But, I feel obligated and somewhat honored to report the truth to the best of my ability and knowledge to the readers of this forum so they can make educated choices.

With all of that said, I am resigned to believing that no one is going to be able to hit numbers they posted in their press release, unless they do a custom tune with risky parameters.

Regardless, I am still happy with performance and the refined, stock-like manners of the car.

One last point to add is not related to Stillen, but centrifugal superchargers in general: I have never owned one, so this was new territory for me. Because the boost comes late, ie. upper rpm range, you only get those massive gains for half of the time that you are on the throttle. At the redline, the engine is going nuts. After the gear change and boost is down again, the performance is far inferior to a positive displacment supercharger. The result is that even though my car makes 422 whp (roughly 500 at the engine), it is not Z06 Corvette fast or GTR fast. It is more like base model Corvette fast. I had a Kenne Bell supercharged mustang cobra that made 375 whp and it felt just as fast as my 370z. It's a little disappointing because with 500 hp, I was expecting to be driving godzilla's little brother, but it just isn't. The solution would be to run the supercharger with an even smaller pulley and use an 8 pound waste gate so that boost comes on early, hits 8 psi early and stays at safe levels to the redline. I talked to Kyle about this and he said they've kicked the idea around many times over the years and even tested an older car with the centrifugal supercharger/waste gate design, but nothing has ever come to fruition because of cost and emissions regulations. So maybe as a stage II custom tune this could be accomplished with a $300 wastegate and a little machine work to make the port and mounting pad in the air intake?

Slynky · 09-07-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimosis

My only criticism of the setup is not with the performance, the workmanship or the customer service. The issue is that my car doesn't perform as well as Stillen's press release car. I'm running headers, hi-flow cats, exhaust, 9 pounds of boost (what I was told, but haven't seen the actual number) and using a 1:3 mix of race fuel and premiun unleaded, yet my car doesn't reach the hp or torque numbers that Stillen advertises on their car running 91 octane with 7.9 psi of boost and all stock, except cat-back exhaust.

If they had a press release and advertised 400 hp and 310 lb/ft of torque, I would have still bought the Stillen kit over the GTM because of Stillen's reputation, racing history and number of vehicles they have modified. I would have still went the supercharger route over turbos because of the lower cost, the simpler conversion back to stock (if needed) and lower risk for engine failure. I say lower risk of failure not because of facts, but from anecdotal stories about catastrophic engine failures on after market turbo cars in general, and that whenever you go to higher hp numbers, you have a higher risk for failure just from internal stresses. Then, after modding my car and getting higher hp and tq numbers than their press release, I would have been ecstatic. But.... Since they advertised these higher numbers, I have been disappointed every step of the way when my car comes up short.

After reviewing the performance of other Stillen customers car, GTM's customer's performance and through analysis and introspection, I've concluded that that problem is not with my car; the problem is with Stillen's press release.

Am I saying that Stillen made the numbers up and that the dyno run is not real? No. They could tune my car to squeeze more power out of it by advancing the timing and leaning it out a little. I'm guessing that their press release was a leaner, more aggressively timed tune, but not a tune they would feel comfortable giving to the public because of the sheer numbers of failures that would inevitabley occur due to the corresponding increase in cylinder temperatures from the lean mix and the material fatigue/cracking that would occur with detonation from the advanced timing. It's no big deal to run your test mule like that for a few weeks of dyno testing, but it is a big deal to give that tune to the public, where some people will be tracking their car, doing top speed runs and other stunts that puts the engine in the upper rpm range under full boost for long periods. A lean/aggressively timed tune under those conditions will eat holes in pistons, crack piston skirts, break wrist pins, spin con rod or main bearings, etc.

The details that I am skeptical of are 1) their car made those numbers with only 7.9 psi of boost and 2) That they intended the tune that developed 438 whp to be distributed to the public and sent for CARB certification.

I want to apologize to Kyle in advance, for posting this. I like you and I don't want to hurt your business. All the people at Stillen have have been nothing less than excellent in how they treated me. And, both the workmanship and installation are excellent. But, I feel obligated and somewhat honored to report the truth to the best of my ability and knowledge to the readers of this forum so they can make educated choices.

With all of that said, I am resigned to believing that no one is going to be able to hit numbers they posted in their press release, unless they do a custom tune with risky parameters.

Regardless, I am still happy with performance and the refined, stock-like manners of the car.

One last point to add is not related to Stillen, but centrifugal superchargers in general: I have never owned one, so this was new territory for me. Because the boost comes late, ie. upper rpm range, you only get those massive gains for half of the time that you are on the throttle. At the redline, the engine is going nuts. After the gear change and boost is down again, the performance is far inferior to a positive displacment supercharger. The result is that even though my car makes 422 whp (roughly 500 at the engine), it is not Z06 Corvette fast or GTR fast. It is more like base model Corvette fast. I had a Kenne Bell supercharged mustang cobra that made 375 whp and it felt just as fast as my 370z. It's a little disappointing because with 500 hp, I was expecting to be driving godzilla's little brother, but it just isn't. The solution would be to run the supercharger with an even smaller pulley and use an 8 pound waste gate so that boost comes on early, hits 8 psi early and stays at safe levels to the redline. I talked to Kyle about this and he said they've kicked the idea around many times over the years and even tested an older car with the centrifugal supercharger/waste gate design, but nothing has ever come to fruition because of cost and emissions regulations. So maybe as a stage II custom tune this could be accomplished with a $300 wastegate and a little machine work to make the port and mounting pad in the air intake?

This is some good info and I completely relate to what you've written. Just as a side comment, "base model Corvette fast"?

2010 Chevrolet Corvette - Consumer Guide Automotive

Reports 430 (436) HP for 2010 base model Corvette.

I'm sure you can find differing reports on the WHP on the base model but one place I read put it around 380.

And, considering your posts, you don't need me to tell you the dyno makes a difference (showing a dyno itself doesn't mean much unless you know which dyno it was and had a comparison chart to place it againt other dynos). I wouldn't pretend you hadn't thought of that.

Anyway, good post, man ! +1

Zsteve · 09-07-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slynky

This is some good info and I completely relate to what you've written. Just as a side comment, "base model Corvette fast"?

2010 Chevrolet Corvette - Consumer Guide Automotive

Reports 430 (436) HP for 2010 base model Corvette.

I'm sure you can find differing reports on the WHP on the base model but one place I read put it around 380.

And, considering your posts, you don't need me to tell you the dyno makes a difference (showing a dyno itself doesn't mean much unless you know which dyno it was and had a comparison chart to place it againt other dynos). I wouldn't pretend you hadn't thought of that.

Anyway, good post, man ! +1

I think the 430 is crank hp and the 380 is probably wheel HP. The base vette is 430 crank HP, as is the GS vette. The Z06 is over 500 and the SC ZR1 is over 600. So a base vette fast is still kinda nice. But with an aftermarket SC it would be nice to have the power lower in the rpms and as I like the low end feel of power, like from a stop or when stepping on it while crusing at a moderate speed.

weiboy718 · 09-07-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

I think the 430 is crank hp and the 380 is probably wheel HP. The base vette is 430 crank HP, as is the GS vette. The Z06 is over 500 and the SC ZR1 is over 600. So a base vette fast is still kinda nice. But with an aftermarket SC it would be nice to have the power lower in the rpms and as I like the low end feel of power, like from a stop or when stepping on it while crusing at a moderate speed.

well, this new tune definately improved alot on the low end! i went through alot of different tune and this tune has the most power. but of course it's not a vette or turbo charged. you will never get that low end as powerful as those. it's much funner to drive now that's all i can say.

Zsteve · 09-07-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiboy718

well, this new tune definately improved alot on the low end! i went through alot of different tune and this tune has the most power. but of course it's not a vette or turbo charged. you will never get that low end as powerful as those. it's much funner to drive now that's all i can say.

Im sure it is more fun. So the throttle response from a stock Z to the SC Z is a big jump? And Im sure the power jump with it is noticeable too?

Slynky · 09-08-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

I think the 430 is crank hp and the 380 is probably wheel HP. The base vette is 430 crank HP, as is the GS vette. The Z06 is over 500 and the SC ZR1 is over 600. So a base vette fast is still kinda nice. But with an aftermarket SC it would be nice to have the power lower in the rpms and as I like the low end feel of power, like from a stop or when stepping on it while crusing at a moderate speed.

Can't agree with you more!

When I started reading about this SC--initially rated at something like +155 WHP--I wondered about the internals. Just as I wonder about the internals of ANY engine having its WHP increased by 50%. I mean, something's gotta give.

I agree with the comment regarding Stillen posting a more "honest" remark about gains and having people actually get a few more HP than using what appears to be a tune that's going to be damaging in the short run to the engine just for the sake of posting a big number.

09-05-2010, 07:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Phimosis Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oildale, CA Posts: 412 Drives: 2013 911 4S Rep Power: 417	My criticism of Stillen's supercharger setup: My only criticism of the setup is not with the performance, the workmanship or the customer service. The issue is that my car doesn't perform as well as Stillen's press release car. I'm running headers, hi-flow cats, exhaust, 9 pounds of boost (what I was told, but haven't seen the actual number) and using a 1:3 mix of race fuel and premiun unleaded, yet my car doesn't reach the hp or torque numbers that Stillen advertises on their car running 91 octane with 7.9 psi of boost and all stock, except cat-back exhaust. If they had a press release and advertised 400 hp and 310 lb/ft of torque, I would have still bought the Stillen kit over the GTM because of Stillen's reputation, racing history and number of vehicles they have modified. I would have still went the supercharger route over turbos because of the lower cost, the simpler conversion back to stock (if needed) and lower risk for engine failure. I say lower risk of failure not because of facts, but from anecdotal stories about catastrophic engine failures on after market turbo cars in general, and that whenever you go to higher hp numbers, you have a higher risk for failure just from internal stresses. Then, after modding my car and getting higher hp and tq numbers than their press release, I would have been ecstatic. But.... Since they advertised these higher numbers, I have been disappointed every step of the way when my car comes up short. After reviewing the performance of other Stillen customers car, GTM's customer's performance and through analysis and introspection, I've concluded that that problem is not with my car; the problem is with Stillen's press release. Am I saying that Stillen made the numbers up and that the dyno run is not real? No. They could tune my car to squeeze more power out of it by advancing the timing and leaning it out a little. I'm guessing that their press release was a leaner, more aggressively timed tune, but not a tune they would feel comfortable giving to the public because of the sheer numbers of failures that would inevitabley occur due to the corresponding increase in cylinder temperatures from the lean mix and the material fatigue/cracking that would occur with detonation from the advanced timing. It's no big deal to run your test mule like that for a few weeks of dyno testing, but it is a big deal to give that tune to the public, where some people will be tracking their car, doing top speed runs and other stunts that puts the engine in the upper rpm range under full boost for long periods. A lean/aggressively timed tune under those conditions will eat holes in pistons, crack piston skirts, break wrist pins, spin con rod or main bearings, etc. The details that I am skeptical of are 1) their car made those numbers with only 7.9 psi of boost and 2) That they intended the tune that developed 438 whp to be distributed to the public and sent for CARB certification. I want to apologize to Kyle in advance, for posting this. I like you and I don't want to hurt your business. All the people at Stillen have have been nothing less than excellent in how they treated me. And, both the workmanship and installation are excellent. But, I feel obligated and somewhat honored to report the truth to the best of my ability and knowledge to the readers of this forum so they can make educated choices. With all of that said, I am resigned to believing that no one is going to be able to hit numbers they posted in their press release, unless they do a custom tune with risky parameters. Regardless, I am still happy with performance and the refined, stock-like manners of the car. One last point to add is not related to Stillen, but centrifugal superchargers in general: I have never owned one, so this was new territory for me. Because the boost comes late, ie. upper rpm range, you only get those massive gains for half of the time that you are on the throttle. At the redline, the engine is going nuts. After the gear change and boost is down again, the performance is far inferior to a positive displacment supercharger. The result is that even though my car makes 422 whp (roughly 500 at the engine), it is not Z06 Corvette fast or GTR fast. It is more like base model Corvette fast. I had a Kenne Bell supercharged mustang cobra that made 375 whp and it felt just as fast as my 370z. It's a little disappointing because with 500 hp, I was expecting to be driving godzilla's little brother, but it just isn't. The solution would be to run the supercharger with an even smaller pulley and use an 8 pound waste gate so that boost comes on early, hits 8 psi early and stays at safe levels to the redline. I talked to Kyle about this and he said they've kicked the idea around many times over the years and even tested an older car with the centrifugal supercharger/waste gate design, but nothing has ever come to fruition because of cost and emissions regulations. So maybe as a stage II custom tune this could be accomplished with a $300 wastegate and a little machine work to make the port and mounting pad in the air intake?

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