A to B

Zsteve · 03-03-2010, 11:28 PM

Thought I would start this thread as an informative thread and not a bashing thread. Ive been looking at the dynos of the 2 SCs and from what I can tell one is at 8 psi and we dont really know what the other is yet. From what I have seen GTMs tq is over 300 lbs from 4200 rpms to 7 rpms, nice. Its power seems to be higher at all rpms too, could be due to a higher psi. So far Im liking the GTM dyno alot but Stillen will probably be coming out with another one with lighter wheel and maybe a higher psi.

I will be going stage 1 no matter what so the 8 psi is looking good so far.

Again I dont want this to be a bashing thing just a place to point of goods and bads about both systems so we can get a good informative view before we buy.

SAM@GTM · 03-04-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Thought I would start this thread as an informative thread and not a bashing thread. Ive been looking at the dynos of the 2 SCs and from what I can tell one is at 8 psi and we dont really know what the other is yet. From what I have seen GTMs tq is over 300 lbs from 4200 rpms to 7 rpms, nice. Its power seems to be higher at all rpms too, could be due to a higher psi. So far Im liking the GTM dyno alot but Stillen will probably be coming out with another one with lighter wheel and maybe a higher psi.

I will be going stage 1 no matter what so the 8 psi is looking good so far.

Again I don't want this to be a bashing thing just a place to point of goods and bads about both systems so we can get a good informative view before we buy.

With out stillen even posting there boost level it will be very hard to do a good comparison. We are here to answer any of you guy's questions, Good technical discussion will help the buyer making a better informed decision .

Sam

Zsteve · 03-04-2010, 12:03 AM

Sam how much of an increase do you think we will get with a CAI and CBE? And how much will I lose with the AT?

SAM@GTM · 03-04-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Sam how much of an increase do you think we will get with a CAI and CBE? And how much will I lose with the AT?

The supercharger system will come with it's own intake so you really can't use a CAI with it if I'm getting you question correctly.

With the older z and g models we use to see a significant difference between the A/T and M/T models, it is not the case with the newer cars probably less the 5%

Sam

Z eliminator · 03-04-2010, 08:31 AM

How I see them.
A stock G automatic making 289 RWHP on 20 inch rims ?
What would it have made on 18 inch rims for a base line (295 or more)
Was the Stillen SC dynoed on 18's. 422 rwhp.
What kind of RWHP ( HP ) ( standard hp ) or the real hp ( SAE)
That G makes more power bone stock than my 370Z 7 AT with all the bolts on's. (292)
so 295 - 422 = 127 rwhp. with a stillen CBE.
GTM's was done with a stock factory exhaust.
My base line of 265 + 127 = 392 rwhp with there CBE ( more $ )
What would it have made with out the CBE ?
What will GTM'S make with a CBE ?
My car with the GTM would make 405 rwhp with out a CBE.
Both company's use HP on there dyno's so thats the only thing thats the only thing which is on and equal playing field.
405 to 392 rwhp not a big difference Those #'s could change on any given day. On my car.
I thnk that the little shop (GTM did a great job making this SC).
I also believe that there more to rwhp to come from GTM.
Just wait till I get my 370 Z running with the GTM kit !!!
I also use Stillen product's They have the best intake for the 370 Z.
There exhaust is good but mine did not fit right at all.
With all there bolt ons mine should make at least 300 rwhp ( base line 265 )
those are nice gains.
I try to be as fair and honest with both companys.
Z Eliminator

Zsteve · 03-04-2010, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

How I see them.
A stock G automatic making 289 RWHP on 20 inch rims ?
What would it have made on 18 inch rims for a base line (295 or more)
Was the Stillen SC dynoed on 18's. 422 rwhp.
What kind of RWHP ( HP ) ( standard hp ) or the real hp ( SAE)
That G makes more power bone stock than my 370Z 7 AT with all the bolts on's. (292)
so 295 - 422 = 127 rwhp. with a stillen CBE.
GTM's was done with a stock factory exhaust.
My base line of 265 + 127 = 392 rwhp with there CBE ( more $ )
What would it have made with out the CBE ?
What will GTM'S make with a CBE ?
My car with the GTM would make 405 rwhp with out a CBE.
Both company's use HP on there dyno's so thats the only thing thats the only thing which is on and equal playing field.
405 to 392 rwhp not a big difference Those #'s could change on any given day. On my car.
I thnk that the little shop (GTM did a great job making this SC).
I also believe that there more to rwhp to come from GTM.
Just wait till I get my 370 Z running with the GTM kit !!!
I also use Stillen product's They have the best intake for the 370 Z.
There exhaust is good but mine did not fit right at all.
With all there bolt ons mine should make at least 300 rwhp ( base line 265 )
those are nice gains.
I try to be as fair and honest with both companys.
Z Eliminator

What elevation are you at? My car feels slower coming from GA to TX where TX is a higher elevation, so that could be one factor. But I was under the impression the Z made more TQ/HP than a G so the Gs #s do seem kinda high. But the main thing is how much do we increase over all and on the average? The average is what Im look at more closely than peak.
So when you got the SC on the 350 how big of a difference did it make?

Z eliminator · 03-04-2010, 10:55 AM

82 rwhp @ 9.5 lbs boost on the 2003 350 z
221 to 303 rwhp/ SAE
best run in the 1/4 13.09 @ 107. with SC.

MMC Racing · 03-04-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Again I dont want this to be a bashing thing just a place to point of goods and bads about both systems so we can get a good informative view before we buy.

Everyone wants this, but this thread is premature as there is still too much speculative information.

There are 2 camps:
1. Early adopters. These people will jump in head first and be the first to try something. They believe so strongly in the company, that they will take the companies word on how the kit will perform.

2. Wait and see crowd. These people want to see real world results. These people are not usually satisfied with taking the companies word on performance claims.

Introductory pricing is meant to move more people from camp 2 to camp 1.

-Camp 2er

Buddy Revell · 03-04-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

Everyone wants this, but this thread is premature as there is still too much speculative information.

There are 2 camps:
1. Early adopters. These people will jump in head first and be the first to try something. They believe so strongly in the company, that they will take the companies word on how the kit will perform.

2. Wait and see crowd. These people want to see real world results. These people are not usually satisfied with taking the companies word on performance claims.

Introductory pricing is meant to move more people from camp 2 to camp 1.

-Camp 2er

Valid points. Haha, I've always been an early adopter: Civic w/ Prelude engine in the mid-90's, first aftermarket turbo kit on my 2000 Celica, first gen iPod in '01, etc. I'm just crazy like that.

Zsteve · 03-04-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

Everyone wants this, but this thread is premature as there is still too much speculative information.

There are 2 camps:
1. Early adopters. These people will jump in head first and be the first to try something. They believe so strongly in the company, that they will take the companies word on how the kit will perform.

2. Wait and see crowd. These people want to see real world results. These people are not usually satisfied with taking the companies word on performance claims.

Introductory pricing is meant to move more people from camp 2 to camp 1.

-Camp 2er

Yes its still early but now that the dynos ar eout we can start to formulate and then change as things change. I didnt expect to have this settled in a day or two.

LaSeeno · 03-04-2010, 02:28 PM

I can wait another year for the real world results to show.

Zsteve · 03-04-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSeeno

I can wait another year for the real world results to show.

I dont think we have to. Part of the reason for this thread was to get points from others like: How well did the SC from these companies do on other cars? Reputation goes a long way as long as they dont do what Toyota did and make good products then start making bad ones down the road.

So for those that had SCs from these companies on other cars, how did they do? Were they reliable? When things went wrong did the companies have good customer service and fix things?

fstrnldr · 03-04-2010, 11:11 PM

as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves:

Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period.

Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for.

From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit.

Just my 2¢

Brazilbro · 03-05-2010, 12:16 AM

Buddy Revell · 03-05-2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstrnldr

as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves:

Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period.

Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for.

From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit.

Just my 2¢

Great post. A very good comparison of the Rotrex vs. the Vortech V-3 separate from the rest of the companies' systems.

03-03-2010, 11:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 21	A to B Thought I would start this thread as an informative thread and not a bashing thread. Ive been looking at the dynos of the 2 SCs and from what I can tell one is at 8 psi and we dont really know what the other is yet. From what I have seen GTMs tq is over 300 lbs from 4200 rpms to 7 rpms, nice. Its power seems to be higher at all rpms too, could be due to a higher psi. So far Im liking the GTM dyno alot but Stillen will probably be coming out with another one with lighter wheel and maybe a higher psi. I will be going stage 1 no matter what so the 8 psi is looking good so far. Again I dont want this to be a bashing thing just a place to point of goods and bads about both systems so we can get a good informative view before we buy. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-04-2010, 12:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 21	Sam how much of an increase do you think we will get with a CAI and CBE? And how much will I lose with the AT? __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-04-2010, 08:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,658 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 18	How I see them. A stock G automatic making 289 RWHP on 20 inch rims ? What would it have made on 18 inch rims for a base line (295 or more) Was the Stillen SC dynoed on 18's. 422 rwhp. What kind of RWHP ( HP ) ( standard hp ) or the real hp ( SAE) That G makes more power bone stock than my 370Z 7 AT with all the bolts on's. (292) so 295 - 422 = 127 rwhp. with a stillen CBE. GTM's was done with a stock factory exhaust. My base line of 265 + 127 = 392 rwhp with there CBE ( more $ ) What would it have made with out the CBE ? What will GTM'S make with a CBE ? My car with the GTM would make 405 rwhp with out a CBE. Both company's use HP on there dyno's so thats the only thing thats the only thing which is on and equal playing field. 405 to 392 rwhp not a big difference Those #'s could change on any given day. On my car. I thnk that the little shop (GTM did a great job making this SC). I also believe that there more to rwhp to come from GTM. Just wait till I get my 370 Z running with the GTM kit !!! I also use Stillen product's They have the best intake for the 370 Z. There exhaust is good but mine did not fit right at all. With all there bolt ons mine should make at least 300 rwhp ( base line 265 ) those are nice gains. I try to be as fair and honest with both companys. Z Eliminator __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015. Last edited by Z eliminator; 03-04-2010 at 08:35 AM.

03-04-2010, 10:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,658 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 18	82 rwhp @ 9.5 lbs boost on the 2003 350 z 221 to 303 rwhp/ SAE best run in the 1/4 13.09 @ 107. with SC. __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

03-05-2010, 12:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
Brazilbro A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,131 Drives: Juke/240Z Rep Power: 848	__________________ Juke AWD/240Z SR20 08 Evo 10(Stage 2) SOLD Fastest Sport 6spd 370Z 11.8 @126.5SOLD

03-04-2010, 02:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
LaSeeno Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mars Posts: 129 Drives: NA Rep Power: 16	I can wait another year for the real world results to show.

03-04-2010, 11:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
fstrnldr Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 170 Drives: Canyonero Rep Power: 16	as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves: Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period. Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for. From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit. Just my 2¢