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Thought I would start this thread as an informative thread and not a bashing thread. Ive been looking at the dynos of the 2 SCs and from what I can tell one is at 8 psi and we dont really know what the other is yet. From what I have seen GTMs tq is over 300 lbs from 4200 rpms to 7 rpms, nice. Its power seems to be higher at all rpms too, could be due to a higher psi. So far Im liking the GTM dyno alot but Stillen will probably be coming out with another one with lighter wheel and maybe a higher psi.

I will be going stage 1 no matter what so the 8 psi is looking good so far.

Again I dont want this to be a bashing thing just a place to point of goods and bads about both systems so we can get a good informative view before we buy.

With out stillen even posting there boost level it will be very hard to do a good comparison. We are here to answer any of you guy's questions, Good technical discussion will help the buyer making a better informed decision .


Sam

Sam how much of an increase do you think we will get with a CAI and CBE? And how much will I lose with the AT?

The supercharger system will come with it's own intake so you really can't use a CAI with it if I'm getting you question correctly.

With the older z and g models we use to see a significant difference between the A/T and M/T models, it is not the case with the newer cars probably less the 5%

Sam

How I see them.
A stock G automatic making 289 RWHP on 20 inch rims ?
What would it have made on 18 inch rims for a base line (295 or more)
Was the Stillen SC dynoed on 18's. 422 rwhp.
What kind of RWHP ( HP ) ( standard hp ) or the real hp ( SAE)
That G makes more power bone stock than my 370Z 7 AT with all the bolts on's. (292)
so 295 - 422 = 127 rwhp. with a stillen CBE.
GTM's was done with a stock factory exhaust.
My base line of 265 + 127 = 392 rwhp with there CBE ( more $ )
What would it have made with out the CBE ?
What will GTM'S make with a CBE ?
My car with the GTM would make 405 rwhp with out a CBE.
Both company's use HP on there dyno's so thats the only thing thats the only thing which is on and equal playing field.
405 to 392 rwhp not a big difference Those #'s could change on any given day. On my car.
I thnk that the little shop (GTM did a great job making this SC).
I also believe that there more to rwhp to come from GTM.
Just wait till I get my 370 Z running with the GTM kit !!!
I also use Stillen product's They have the best intake for the 370 Z.
There exhaust is good but mine did not fit right at all.
With all there bolt ons mine should make at least 300 rwhp ( base line 265 )
those are nice gains.
I try to be as fair and honest with both companys.
Z Eliminator

What elevation are you at? My car feels slower coming from GA to TX where TX is a higher elevation, so that could be one factor. But I was under the impression the Z made more TQ/HP than a G so the Gs #s do seem kinda high. But the main thing is how much do we increase over all and on the average? The average is what Im look at more closely than peak.
So when you got the SC on the 350 how big of a difference did it make?

82 rwhp @ 9.5 lbs boost on the 2003 350 z
221 to 303 rwhp/ SAE
best run in the 1/4 13.09 @ 107. with SC.

Everyone wants this, but this thread is premature as there is still too much speculative information.

There are 2 camps:
1. Early adopters. These people will jump in head first and be the first to try something. They believe so strongly in the company, that they will take the companies word on how the kit will perform.

2. Wait and see crowd. These people want to see real world results. These people are not usually satisfied with taking the companies word on performance claims.

Introductory pricing is meant to move more people from camp 2 to camp 1.

-Camp 2er

Valid points. Haha, I've always been an early adopter: Civic w/ Prelude engine in the mid-90's, first aftermarket turbo kit on my 2000 Celica, first gen iPod in '01, etc. I'm just crazy like that.

Yes its still early but now that the dynos ar eout we can start to formulate and then change as things change. I didnt expect to have this settled in a day or two.

I can wait another year for the real world results to show.

I dont think we have to. Part of the reason for this thread was to get points from others like: How well did the SC from these companies do on other cars? Reputation goes a long way as long as they dont do what Toyota did and make good products then start making bad ones down the road.

So for those that had SCs from these companies on other cars, how did they do? Were they reliable? When things went wrong did the companies have good customer service and fix things?

as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves:

Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period.

Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for.

From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit.

Just my 2¢

:iagree:

Great post. A very good comparison of the Rotrex vs. the Vortech V-3 separate from the rest of the companies' systems.:tup:

I'll be the bad guy and say can't agree. 2nd to 3rd hand knowledge reviews don't bring much insight.

If we look at the 350z, there are some obvious points:

1. Stillen kit was a complete failure in price and performance. It's small niche was CARB certification, but Vortech had that too. If we had a way of collecting numbers I bet the Stillen kit was removed in the highest % to be replaced with another kit (turbo or supercharger)
2. GTM's/HKS kit was a commercial failure (based on how many kits sold). Good performance numbers, but initially a very high price and the biggest claim to fame over the Vortech kit was it was quiet. Can't argue there - owned the Vortech and the low RPM rattle was annoying.
3. Vortech by far is the most used supercharger on the 350z. There was a bad batch of them a few year back. Vortech brought the most completely kit at that price level. No oil feed into the newer V3's are a nice improvement. I haven't heard a V3 yet to know if it is quieter.

Hmmm...if you don't agree that fstrnldr shared some good information on Rotrex and Vortech blowers (he wasn't talking about complete kits, just the actual SC units), please explain which of his points are incorrect.

1. What does Stillen's roots-based 350Z kit have to do with fstrnldr's thoughts on the Rotrex or Vortech units? He wasn't talking about the old Eaton blower at all nor was he talking about any company's complete SC kit.

2. What does HKS's commercial success on it's 350Z SC kit have to do with the fact that the Rotrex unit is pretty quiet and has been used in various SC systems like the Honda kits by kraftwerks/Oscar Jackson? I don't think he was implying that Rotrex's unit was used in more applications than Vortech's or anything like that.

3. Was he incorrect about any of the facts concerning Vortech (solid peak power potential, improved design due to no longer using the engine's oil, the bearing issue that happened with some of their older units, etc.)? Was he incorrect in any of his points about the Rotrex (newer company with not as much info about it, quiet design, good midrange power for a centrifugal unit, etc.)? Those were accurate points, as far as i know.

Thanks guys, some good info so far. I personnaly dont know a whole lot about SCs and want all the info I can get to make the best choice possible. Some things I like about the kits so far are:

I like Stillens new water to air cooler design, its cool, but does it do better than the tried and true FMIC?

With Stillen using the new intake which is now a one filter intake, does GTMs two filter intake allow for more air flow which is why they can keep their TQ above 300 for the majority of the time and Stillen cant?

Still waiting for Stillen to come out with a more final dyno and PSI number to get a better comparison between the two.

If one SC is 8 psi and another is 6 psi is that enough of a difference that the higher one will shorten the life of the engine or are they both low enough that it wont matter?

I wouldn't call my knowledge 2nd or 3rd hand by any means. I have been in the "import scene" since the beginning, and have been working in automotive field for more than 15 years. This includes working in performance shops, and owning my own for several years. I was around to install and test the vortech kits when they were released for the B series Hondas back in the day, and was around to see what they did at the track, and how long it lasted before the blower had to be replaced. I have installed superchargers from multiple companies on the Z33, as well as other platforms. I have also owned factory supercharged cars to see how those engineers made things work, and what they chose to do to create more power and more important made it last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The points i made that i didn't have hands on experience with, i tried to make it very clear that i didn't have hands on experience with them as to not confuse people. IF you have a different facts, and opinions on the chargers themselves outside of the two companies that are producing kits for the Z34 like the original poster asked for, then i would say post them up.

I don't believe that his points, nothing 1st hand, brought any extra value. Anyone with the ability to use a search button already know rotrex are quieter than Vortechs. Specific to these kits, the position in the engine bay will only compound this difference.

1-3. I quoted you ,not him. My 1-3 points have nothing to do with him. They are my opinions on the history of superchargers on the Z platform which I have actually owned, worked on, or at least seen in person.

I like Stillens new water to air cooler design, its cool, but does it do better than the tried and true FMIC?

This is going to depend on a lot of factors. including size of the heat exchangers (air/water) and the IC (air/air) they both have advantages and disadvantages, and i could go on for a while about them, but i'm trying to make this short before i head off to work.

With Stillen using the new intake which is now a one filter intake, does GTMs two filter intake allow for more air flow which is why they can keep their TQ above 300 for the majority of the time and Stillen cant? IF this was a problem with the air filter you would see it in the top end power more so than the low end torque. With out knowing all of the data like air fuel and boost curves (not just max boost) its just guessing. This is however one of the things that Rotrex is suppose to be good at.

If one SC is 8 psi and another is 6 psi is that enough of a difference that the higher one will shorten the life of the engine or are they both low enough that it wont matter?

at the end of the day to make XXX hp it still will take a set amount of air and fuel to make it work.

Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree then. IMO, there's definitely value In sharing accurate info with many on this forum who aren't as knowledgeable about these superchargers.

Are there pics of Stillen's intake placement and design? I don't think I've seen that yet.

There is a pic of the engine bay way back in their thread. The SC is in the front drivers side part of the engine so the intak will probably be on the drivers side in the front bumper.

I haven't really said anything yet but I feel like I should now...

I think this idea is fantastic and I look forward to it.

However, there isn't enough information about the two kits to be able to have an educated discussion. For example, we have not gone to a single intake design, we have two seperate intakes and two seperate MAF sensors.

This is just my opinion but how about we start a new thread discussing the features and benefits of each kit after the STILLEN press release and photography is available. We're not far from having it ready.

I just don't like having inaccurate information being discussed and as we've said before, we want to present it all to you guys in one complete, concise format so that no information gets lost later on.

ya but we all don't wamt to wait until next year.

Josh and I are putting together our press release and working on having everything ready for you. There is a lot of data and it will take sometime to thoroughly and completely explain all of the engineering and development that has gone into this kit.

Also, the kit is being switched over to the Z right now and we won't have final dyno numbers on that for a few more days.

We have always said that we would have a press release ready in early March. We will be very close to that.

well after the 7th you are looking at it being mid march

Wow, I just now saw that the GTM kit is stealth. That looks very nasty.

Sorry kyle, I just *** umed it was one cuz I couldnt see everything. But this is what this thread was meant to do, get info out to others. So far we have got more info out now than there was before the thread and thats good. I was hoping this thread would kinda do that along with get the pros and cons of both systems. Gotta remember as consumers who are waiting for a product we start comparing as soon as one comes out. Nature of the beast. Dont be mad at the consumer for wanting something that was said to be out at a certain time. We are just trying to put more money in your pocket.

No need to apologize. Like I said, I think this thread is great and will be very informative and helpful. I would just like to have all of our information prepared for everyone that's all.

So can you throw the PSI out there for that dyno? JK. maybe

LMAO!

It will be in the press release which will be coming VERY soon. It won't be today, but it won't be much longer. We are all working very hard to get this going. The press release is going to have a lot of information that I think will be great for this discussion.

Like I said, I think this thread is great and I really look forward to reading it. There are quite a few people on here that have a lot of knowledge and experience so it will be interesting to read everyone's opinions.

Sounds good, hey I may need a rent to own deal for my SC kit, can we make that part of the intro deal? LOL

Kyle, you try out that Logworks app on your iPhone yet? 0-60 times on the 370 perhaps lol!

LOL, actually we've talked about credit plans or something along those lines before. We just haven't been able to find one that we really liked.

I haven't had the opportunity to try it out yet. I've got it downloaded though just need to find some test to mess around with it. Actually after I downloaded I realized that I've lost dynolicious from my phone. I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong there.

Logworks keeps telling me that I don't have the right connector though, what's that all about?

lol credit plan would be great :) Inhouse financing of anything over 5k :tiphat:

Yeah the interest on these credit plants would be like 22.99%, and if you can't buy it don't get it on credit. I mean do people really need a TT kit that they will get them self into a debt of 10-15k. I guess I am so against this idea because when I was younger I got my self into a lot of meaning less debt that I am still trying to get out. All most there :happydance:

That would be a bit outta control. I mean people finance wheels these days, so you know someone is going to do it.

LOL, boost for rent FTW! if you wanna go that route, you could just apply for a credit union loan for a low interest rate and buy the system straight up!