Dipping a toe in the rabbit hole...

Jinxx · 07-13-2019, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I believe you stated one thing in your first post, then contradicted it in your second.

You said there is no surge initially, now said it does.

I was the one who said I had both kits.

At any rate, I agree with your second post.

I never said there wasn’t a surge .. I was referring to the “lag” .. boost is more aggressive on the turbo .. I don’t consider it a lag and hit feel on the Z cars with newer kits . That was the intent I was getting to ... and definitely no lag when shifting

MZ DAIZY · 07-13-2019, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirnixalot

While I agree with you Jinxx, for what he wants the centrifugal is his best bet. The linear power delivery will be more predictable when his wife drives it.

It’s not number one on the list, but happy wife, happy life and all that...

redondoaveb · 07-13-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ DAIZY

It’s not number one on the list, but happy wife, happy life and all that...

Happy wife or you might be back to this.
This is like finding out about masturbation for the first time again..

MZ DAIZY · 07-13-2019, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redondoaveb

Happy wife or you might be back to this.
This is like finding out about masturbation for the first time again..

You're obviously married too....

redondoaveb · 07-13-2019, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ DAIZY

You're obviously married too....

Actually, I'm not. How do you think I can blow all my money on cars.

TBatt · 07-15-2019, 09:47 AM

I've been running the Stillen/TopZ system for several years now and about 8K miles problem free. Here is what I have observed:

My SC is setup with the 9psi pulley on the SC. At ~3000 rpm the SC is just starting to output more air than the engine is taking in. I can tell because the boost gauge is showing zero pressure and the blow off valve is starting to open and hiss. This equates to about 80mph steady cruise. So, if you have a MT6 you will need to down shift to third if you want maximum boost or fourth gear if you want to be easy on the tranny syncros. When the engine hits red line (7500) it will be making max boost and power. The engine will drop rpm by about 1500rpm when you grab the next higher gear. Now you are down from max power but at the power levels we are at you get to the next gear pretty fast.

Turbos cars need load in order to produce boost. So at the 3000 rpm range the turbos will spool up and provide lots of torque without down shifting. This could be very damaging to your engine as we all know these engines do not hold up well when producing a lot of torque. A down shift with the turbo car is needed as well to get the most power and in this case ease the load on the engine. Now here is where a big difference occurs between SC and turbo cars. During a shift, the SC and boost is exactly where the rpm is. No lag, it is directly driven by the engine. Turbos, on the other hand, will actually spool down during a shift and have to accelerate back up. That is why most guys use a automatic tranny for drag racing. Depending on the turbo setup, this can cause some on and off power delivery.

Cars that have sophisticated turbo systems (Porsche, GTR) get around some of this with careful design and darn good engineering. They can feel like a big ol' V8 on the low end and they have control to not over torque if you don't downshift.

Anyways, enough of my two cents worth. I love SC and if you drive "normal" the car drives perfectly normal and if you put your foot in it it responds like a stock car until the rpms get up. No sudden surprises with unexpected boost. Safe.

Spooler · 07-15-2019, 10:08 AM

I get a tickle out of you guys arguing about turbo charging and super charger differences. It is quit entertaining.

MZ DAIZY · 07-15-2019, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBatt

I've been running the Stillen/TopZ system for several years now and about 8K miles problem free. Here is what I have observed:

My SC is setup with the 9psi pulley on the SC. At ~3000 rpm he SC is just starting to output more air than the engine is taking in. I can tell because the boost gauge is showing zero pressure and the blow off valve is starting to open and hiss. This equates to about 80mph steady cruise. So, if you have a MT6 you will need to down shift to third if you want maximum boost or fourth gear if you want to be easy on the tranny syncros. When the engine hits red line (7500) it will be making max boost and power. The engine will drop rpm by about 1500rpm when you grab the next higher gear. Now you are down from max power but at the power levels we are at you get to the next gear pretty fast.

Turbos cars need load in order to produce boost. So at the 3000 rpm range the turbos will spool up and provide lots of torque without down shifting. This could be very damaging to your engine as we all know these engines do not hold up well when producing a lot of torque. A down shift with the turbo car is needed as well to get the most power and in this case ease the load on the engine. Now here is where a big difference occurs between SC and turbo cars. During a shift, the SC and boost is exactly where the rpm is. No lag, it is directly driven by the engine. Turbos, on the other hand, will actually spool down during a shift and have to accelerate back up. That is why most guys use a automatic tranny for drag racing. Depending on the turbo setup, this can cause some on and off power delivery.

Cars that have sophisticated turbo systems (Porsche, GTR) get around some of this with careful design and darn good engineering. They can feel like a big ol' V8 on the low end and they have control to not over torque if you don't downshift.

Anyways, enough of my two cents worth. I love SC and if you drive "normal" the car drives perfectly normal and if you put your foot in it it responds like a stock car until the rpms get up. No sudden surprises with unexpected boost. Safe.

I’m up to page 75 of Aaron’s “topguns” a2a thread. I’m literally bleary eyed...

I’m hoping my install goes smoother than yours. You’re the guy with the J pipe that wouldn’t fit right?

TopgunZ · 07-15-2019, 07:29 PM

There have been a lot of modifications to this kit since it's inception. The L pipe will fit right up.

TBatt · 07-16-2019, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ DAIZY

I’m up to page 75 of Aaron’s “topguns” a2a thread. I’m literally bleary eyed...

I’m hoping my install goes smoother than yours. You’re the guy with the J pipe that wouldn’t fit right?

Yes, my install was the first as a clean install. All of the others up to that point were replacing the water system with the A2A. Also, Aaron was just getting into production and that always has some teething pains. At the beginning, his kit included a 45° pipe that would work but the clocking on the SC volute had to be perfect. He has since then gone to a 60° that is much more forgiving.

He has come a long way from where he started! My input, as well as others that were helping him develop the kit, were paving the way for you. We had some initial issues but all of them have been resolved.

You just can't imagine what his kit does for the Z. Perfectly stock driving experience until you get on it and then good luck trying to get the rear tires to hook up. My rear tires will spin at 80mph with WOT and I'm running 305s.

TBatt · 07-16-2019, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

I get a tickle out of you guys arguing about turbo charging and super charger differences. It is quit entertaining.

Not so much arguing as it is discussing. The end result of both is more power but a different way to get there and a different driving experience.

A factory turbo car these days is pretty well sorted out and the fact that it has a turbo is well hidden because of the sophistication of the system. Adding a turbo to a NA car does not give you the same integrated driving experience. It is more raw (which can be awesome).

A SC installed on a NA car is just a smoother driving experience to me.

One thing that I have noticed with turbos is how they handle hills when cruising on the highway/interstate. As soon as the engine starts to get a load on it due to going up hill the turbos spool up and give more power. The SC cars don't do that.

Either way you go it is gonna' be fun!

Spooler · 07-16-2019, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBatt

Not so much arguing as it is discussing. The end result of both is more power but a different way to get there and a different driving experience.

A factory turbo car these days is pretty well sorted out and the fact that it has a turbo is well hidden because of the sophistication of the system. Adding a turbo to a NA car does not give you the same integrated driving experience. It is more raw (which can be awesome).

A SC installed on a NA car is just a smoother driving experience to me.

One thing that I have noticed with turbos is how they handle hills when cruising on the highway/interstate. As soon as the engine starts to get a load on it due to going up hill the turbos spool up and give more power. The SC cars don't do that.

Either way you go it is gonna' be fun!

The rawer it is the more I like it. I don't want something anybody can drive fast. I want something you have to work at it. The satisfaction is much greater. Plus, I grew up with RAW like most of the old farts on here. LMAO. I guess that is why I like the older 911 GT2RS's or an F40. It wants to kill me, great, give it here.

TBatt · 07-16-2019, 11:20 AM

I got to drive the first generation 930 turbo and that car was a hoot! The owner told me that as soon as the tach hits 4000 rpm, shift. I still would hit the rev limiter. The time it took the engine to go from 4000 rpm to redline was less than a second. That car was a handful!

MZ DAIZY · 07-16-2019, 05:20 PM

So, after a ton reading it’s my understanding that This is going to melt my stock cats. Unfortunately, test pipes are a deal breaker for me. My HOA measures the length of my lawn, so I’m going to go out on a limb and say they aren’t going to be pleased with an open exhaust.

I’m running a FI CBE with 12” resonators, stock manifolds and cats and get the stink eye every time I cruise the hood now, mostly due to its Hilly and there’s just now way to get in or out of here “quietly”.

Do I have options other than test pipes? Will this melt Quality HFC’s?

Is there a quieter solution?

PS: unfortunately, moving is not an option at this time.

redondoaveb · 07-16-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ DAIZY

So, after a ton reading it’s my understanding that This is going to melt my stock cats. Unfortunately, test pipes are a deal breaker for me. My HOA measures the length of my lawn, so I’m going to go out on a limb and say they aren’t going to be pleased with an open exhaust.

I’m running a FI CBE with 12” resonators, stock manifolds and cats and get the stink eye every time I cruise the hood now, mostly due to its Hilly and there’s just now way to get in or out of here “quietly”.

Do I have options other than test pipes? Will this melt Quality HFC’s?

Is there a quieter solution?

PS: unfortunately, moving is not an option at this time.

FI sells lead pipes with 100 cell mil spec cats welded in. They help a little bit. You still need to run test pipes. I run Art pipes. That's really about the best you can imo.

07-15-2019, 09:47 AM	#51 (permalink)
TBatt Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 832 Drives: 2019 GT-R Rep Power: 20169	I've been running the Stillen/TopZ system for several years now and about 8K miles problem free. Here is what I have observed: My SC is setup with the 9psi pulley on the SC. At ~3000 rpm the SC is just starting to output more air than the engine is taking in. I can tell because the boost gauge is showing zero pressure and the blow off valve is starting to open and hiss. This equates to about 80mph steady cruise. So, if you have a MT6 you will need to down shift to third if you want maximum boost or fourth gear if you want to be easy on the tranny syncros. When the engine hits red line (7500) it will be making max boost and power. The engine will drop rpm by about 1500rpm when you grab the next higher gear. Now you are down from max power but at the power levels we are at you get to the next gear pretty fast. Turbos cars need load in order to produce boost. So at the 3000 rpm range the turbos will spool up and provide lots of torque without down shifting. This could be very damaging to your engine as we all know these engines do not hold up well when producing a lot of torque. A down shift with the turbo car is needed as well to get the most power and in this case ease the load on the engine. Now here is where a big difference occurs between SC and turbo cars. During a shift, the SC and boost is exactly where the rpm is. No lag, it is directly driven by the engine. Turbos, on the other hand, will actually spool down during a shift and have to accelerate back up. That is why most guys use a automatic tranny for drag racing. Depending on the turbo setup, this can cause some on and off power delivery. Cars that have sophisticated turbo systems (Porsche, GTR) get around some of this with careful design and darn good engineering. They can feel like a big ol' V8 on the low end and they have control to not over torque if you don't downshift. Anyways, enough of my two cents worth. I love SC and if you drive "normal" the car drives perfectly normal and if you put your foot in it it responds like a stock car until the rpms get up. No sudden surprises with unexpected boost. Safe. Rusty, Optimiser, wideglideleon and 3 others like this. __________________ RJM pedal, Hotchkis Sway Bars, FI TDX, FOG Light, Z1 Slotted Drilled rotors, Stillen SC, Quaife ATB, Z1 Oil cooler, AEM Gauge Set, Galeforce gauge mount, Avant Garde M590 Hypersilver w/RE-11, TopgunZ A2A kit., ECUtek tuned by Seb: ROLL TIDE! Last edited by TBatt; 07-16-2019 at 09:00 AM.

07-15-2019, 10:08 AM	#52 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,053 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	I get a tickle out of you guys arguing about turbo charging and super charger differences. It is quit entertaining. Zezus likes this.

07-15-2019, 07:29 PM	#54 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	There have been a lot of modifications to this kit since it's inception. The L pipe will fit right up. TBatt, Asus_ and MZ DAIZY like this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

07-16-2019, 11:20 AM	#58 (permalink)
TBatt Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 832 Drives: 2019 GT-R Rep Power: 20169	I got to drive the first generation 930 turbo and that car was a hoot! The owner told me that as soon as the tach hits 4000 rpm, shift. I still would hit the rev limiter. The time it took the engine to go from 4000 rpm to redline was less than a second. That car was a handful! Spooler likes this. __________________ RJM pedal, Hotchkis Sway Bars, FI TDX, FOG Light, Z1 Slotted Drilled rotors, Stillen SC, Quaife ATB, Z1 Oil cooler, AEM Gauge Set, Galeforce gauge mount, Avant Garde M590 Hypersilver w/RE-11, TopgunZ A2A kit., ECUtek tuned by Seb: ROLL TIDE!

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07-16-2019, 05:20 PM	#59 (permalink)
MZ DAIZY A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,934 Drives: Miss Daisy Rep Power: 613734	So, after a ton reading it’s my understanding that This is going to melt my stock cats. Unfortunately, test pipes are a deal breaker for me. My HOA measures the length of my lawn, so I’m going to go out on a limb and say they aren’t going to be pleased with an open exhaust. I’m running a FI CBE with 12” resonators, stock manifolds and cats and get the stink eye every time I cruise the hood now, mostly due to its Hilly and there’s just now way to get in or out of here “quietly”. Do I have options other than test pipes? Will this melt Quality HFC’s? Is there a quieter solution? PS: unfortunately, moving is not an option at this time.