Fast Intentions Stage 2 TT build by MA-Motorsports.

Spooler · 12-29-2019, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Sad to see the news ............

If you are going to start again, start with an R35 (VR38) block .....

Can I also suggest that you need two tunes in the car .... one with "enough" boost for fun-DD and another for "mega-grin factor".

There was a time when I had to build 3 race engines (starting with new blocks following catasrophic engine failure) in one season before biting the bullet and retiring the wet sump and going dry-sump, so I understand the frustration. I eventually stepped out of competition for the season and spent time researching and "building it right". I had some really robust conversations with my engine-builder and lots of phone calls and discussions with others who had been down my road (my race engine was based on the Buick 215 alloy V8 which was the genesis of the Repco-Brabham F1 engine in the 60's) and I found a heap of research available. Not wishing to say anything about MA but there are a few guys here in Oz who run VQ35HR TT engines in off-road buggies and they all run 600-700 HP for extended WoT). Check out the Finke Desert Race as an example of arduous duty - but these guys limit their boost to aid reliability hence my suggestion for 2 tunes - OR start with a VR block. There is a shop in South Australia who are doing a billet VR block but it is a serious investment.

Blowing the bottom hose off suggests you've got boost/combustion pressure into the water jacket so head gasket clamping pressure is the key and I suspect a VQ block - even with closed deck sleeves is never going to be 100%.

Hence the suggestion of a VR38 block as the basis of doing it again.

Two quotes to remember ...

"Good luck with your project"

and

Look after SWMBO unless you want to find out how much your half of the house is worth !!!

LOL, I am leaning on a couple VQ35DE guys. I think they have had it figured out for a long time. The problem with the VQ37VHR guys is many people have had issues and just swept it under the rug to save face, so to speak. I have however decided to just be transparent no matter how much it hurts. There are a list of high HP guys who have all had blown headgasket issues. They do a dyno number and then they are gone. Some sell out and some rebuild and you hardly ever see the car being driven again. You never hear of them mention any problems. They still act like they have a high HP car and they don't. I was running two different boost levels. I am good with the power level that I had, now to figure out how to make it live. Most high HP cars are not even driven. They mall crawl or whatever. They can do what they want but that is not my thang. The only car being driven similar to mine is Freshhkiicks. I am not sure of his HP level. He had headgasket issues at 10k. My wife is good for now. This can't continue though.

Bman427 · 12-29-2019, 10:30 PM

If you decide to go with Darton sleeves make sure you find an experienced shop to install them. I had one of the first LS1 darton blocks and had nothing but nightmares with the block. I would call Darton and ask them who can do the install correctly. Personally I'll never use sleeves again.

I dont think sleeves will fix the issue anyway. I'm having deck stanchions machined above each chamber for additional strength. My shop thinks it will handle up to 30psi. It should be done in 6 weeks, I'll post some pics.

I would be interested in knowing what is needed to use a 3.8 block...

Spooler · 12-29-2019, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bman427

If you decide to go with Darton sleeves make sure you find an experienced shop to install them. I had one of the first LS1 darton blocks and had nothing but nightmares with the block. I would call Darton and ask them who can do the install correctly. Personally I'll never use sleeves again.

I dont think sleeves will fix the issue anyway. I'm having deck stanchions machined above each chamber for additional strength. My shop thinks it will handle up to 30psi. It should be done in 6 weeks, I'll post some pics.

I would be interested in knowing what is needed to use a 3.8 block...

Good luck, your gonna need it. You are in the black hole of the VQ37VHR. Let us know if it works short term and long term. I am not sure if I am going to do sleeves. I have many more questions to ask that need answers. I have 2 machine shops with Darton MID sleeve experience.

Bman427 · 12-30-2019, 09:18 AM

I'm building it to drive like you have done with your car. I wont lean on it real hard very often, probably stay around 12-15psi if I even get that far...

Martijn_b · 12-30-2019, 09:59 AM

Remember there was a build on here from a polish Guy? He wrapped his 370 red and posted some street racing vids, running 800whp on 93. He did studs instead of sleeves.

My friend runs 22 psi and 830hp, for about a year now. He burned a valve, but that's it..so far..

Anyways, goodluck!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

JLarson · 12-30-2019, 10:10 AM

Just read the updates here, really sorry you went through this Spooler! I know it comes with the territory, but it still sucks big time. Thanks for continuing to share your experiences, both good and bad.

soill370z · 12-30-2019, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martijn_b

remember there was a build on here from a polish guy? He wrapped his 370 red and posted some street racing vids, running 800whp on 93. He did studs instead of sleeves.

My friend runs 22 psi and 830hp, for about a year now. He burned a valve, but that's it..so far..

Anyways, goodluck!

Sent from my sm-g973f using tapatalk

good ol' diabel

solidus · 12-30-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martijn_b

Remember there was a build on here from a polish Guy? He wrapped his 370 red and posted some street racing vids, running 800whp on 93. He did studs instead of sleeves.

My friend runs 22 psi and 830hp, for about a year now. He burned a valve, but that's it..so far..

Anyways, goodluck!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Diabel actually used rods to stabilize the cyinders. It was genius as hell. I actually copied his build with mine. How to get those rods done bothered me so much I just gave up on and went with his base build. He finished up with 771 on 100 octane. My goal was to meet his power which I'm pretty sure I've done now. Difference is he used Jun cams and I used JWTs and also he was 9:1 and I'm 10:1. That'll change sometime soon since I'm probably going to switch from the PTE 6870 to the new Comp air cooled 6871.

phunk · 12-31-2019, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidus

Diabel actually used rods to stabilize the cyinders. It was genius as hell. I actually copied his build with mine. How to get those rods done bothered me so much I just gave up on and went with his base build. He finished up with 771 on 100 octane. My goal was to meet his power which I'm pretty sure I've done now. Difference is he used Jun cams and I used JWTs and also he was 9:1 and I'm 10:1. That'll change sometime soon since I'm probably going to switch from the PTE 6870 to the new Comp air cooled 6871.

Are you talking about pinning the sleeves? You can get that done at pretty much any machine shop. Its a simple process, just not a DIY type thing if you dont have a the machining equipment. I have never personally had it done, but Id imagine somewhere in the 600-750$ range based on other custom machine work ive had done. It seems a bit inconsiderate of coolant flow though.

madwi · 12-31-2019, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

Are you talking about pinning the sleeves? You can get that done at pretty much any machine shop. Its a simple process, just not a DIY type thing if you dont have a the machining equipment. I have never personally had it done, but Id imagine somewhere in the 600-750$ range based on other custom machine work ive had done. It seems a bit inconsiderate of coolant flow though.

phunk · 12-31-2019, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madwi

I think this is what Forged Performance tried on the all Carbon 370z build some years ago. IIRC it did have a head gasket failure, but id have to double check with the owner to be sure. Any machine shop should be able to replicate this for you.

Spooler · 12-31-2019, 01:05 AM

This problem is so FRUSTRATING. Still researching. Very little data to be had.

Spooler · 12-31-2019, 01:41 AM

A 3 or 4 Axis CNC is needed for the machine work to keep the tight tolerances.
As long as it has been machined properly you shouldn't have any longevity issues.
CAT, Cummins, etc. have been using this for years in diesel applications.

phunk · 12-31-2019, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

A 3 or 4 Axis CNC is needed for the machine work to keep the tight tolerances.
As long as it has been machined properly you shouldn't have any longevity issues.
CAT, Cummins, etc. have been using this for years in diesel applications.

I had Darton wet sleeves installed to a block for my car a few years ago. It was done at a machine shop that makes some of the billet VR38 blocks, they were very well equipped for it. Unfortunately I was too busy to build my car and ended up selling that block to someone on here, never had a chance to try it out. Im not sure of anyone trying them in a built VHR yet? The guy who purchased mine, his car sat a couple years but they did just finally assemble his engine, so we will see how his turns out soon.

Spooler · 12-31-2019, 01:09 PM

I have talked with Brian today. We have decided on a solution and what we need to do going forward. He has talked with the machine shop that built my engine today also. We are still gathering information to ensure we are on the right path. Everyone is backed up. It may be a little bit before my car goes back to MA. Brain is working on the scheduling nightmare. We are going to do several things. MA-Motorsports is taking care of me. That is a good thing. It would be unreasonable to expect it all for free. I am not expecting such.

12-30-2019, 09:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Martijn_b Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Netherlands Posts: 280 Drives: 2010 370z MB 6MT Rep Power: 3787	Remember there was a build on here from a polish Guy? He wrapped his 370 red and posted some street racing vids, running 800whp on 93. He did studs instead of sleeves. My friend runs 22 psi and 830hp, for about a year now. He burned a valve, but that's it..so far.. Anyways, goodluck! Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk __________________ Instagram: Boosted_Fairlady

12-30-2019, 10:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
JLarson A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Media, PA Posts: 4,079 Drives: 14 Nissan 370z MR M6 Rep Power: 2684371	Just read the updates here, really sorry you went through this Spooler! I know it comes with the territory, but it still sucks big time. Thanks for continuing to share your experiences, both good and bad. __________________ 2014 370z Touring Sport Magma Red MT // BP Single Turbo 6467 // 63mm TB's // Z1 Ported Upper Mani // RJM Pedal // Zspeed Stage 3 Clutch // 526 WHP, 451 WTQ 2006 350z (Sold) // 1990 300zx (Sold) // 1985 300zx 2+2 (Sold)

12-31-2019, 01:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,063 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	A 3 or 4 Axis CNC is needed for the machine work to keep the tight tolerances. As long as it has been machined properly you shouldn't have any longevity issues. CAT, Cummins, etc. have been using this for years in diesel applications. Last edited by Spooler; 12-31-2019 at 02:06 AM.

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12-29-2019, 10:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bman427 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 25 Drives: 09 G37X Rep Power: 6	If you decide to go with Darton sleeves make sure you find an experienced shop to install them. I had one of the first LS1 darton blocks and had nothing but nightmares with the block. I would call Darton and ask them who can do the install correctly. Personally I'll never use sleeves again. I dont think sleeves will fix the issue anyway. I'm having deck stanchions machined above each chamber for additional strength. My shop thinks it will handle up to 30psi. It should be done in 6 weeks, I'll post some pics. I would be interested in knowing what is needed to use a 3.8 block...

12-30-2019, 09:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bman427 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 25 Drives: 09 G37X Rep Power: 6	I'm building it to drive like you have done with your car. I wont lean on it real hard very often, probably stay around 12-15psi if I even get that far...

12-31-2019, 01:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,063 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	This problem is so FRUSTRATING. Still researching. Very little data to be had.

12-31-2019, 01:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,063 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	I have talked with Brian today. We have decided on a solution and what we need to do going forward. He has talked with the machine shop that built my engine today also. We are still gathering information to ensure we are on the right path. Everyone is backed up. It may be a little bit before my car goes back to MA. Brain is working on the scheduling nightmare. We are going to do several things. MA-Motorsports is taking care of me. That is a good thing. It would be unreasonable to expect it all for free. I am not expecting such.