Edit: Thanks for talking to me offline FP, sorry for the misunderstanding.


These comments continue to spiral out of control @fpenvy and @zbrah, I kindly ask you to stop with the accusations. Stop trying to wrap our name in with Sam and GTM and his scam. You have no basis for your accusations and what you are doing is smearing our name all over this forum as if we had something to do with it. Whether you intended to or not, you are affecting my reputation and my ability to do my job on this forum. I don't appreciate it, I didn't ask for it and I won't stand for it.

How would you like it if I came in to your work and prevented you from achieving your goals? Remind me again what I ever did to you to get treated this way? Was it because I bought a GTM SC kit and had to wait over a year to get the parts to have it completed so I could sell it? Was it because I was owed money by GTM that carried over and became Gamma's debt and in good faith they decided it was a good idea to take care of us on it? Is there a problem with either of those questions? I am asking you, and everyone else to simply stop, keep our name out of your mouth, I didn't do anything to deserve this.

YES.

When my fellow z brethren gets kicked around in bad business practices I will NOT sit idly and watch it contiue. I will however raise my voice if it can get some attention to help get him some resolutions. And I will continue to speak out to warn people of this shady company and become a potential victim :cool:

Don't estimate the power of this community when we come together. Have you guys forgotten that it was out voices that quickly put that scammer out the door? Unlike some of you (bullit, vivid, birdman) who think nothing can be done or nothing should be done, and that everything going down is simply normal business conducts. I think I speak for the majority of this community that we will not tollerate bad business practices here to go on, especially when so many people have been a victimized by it. You continue to bring it we will continue to knock it down.

Reading Comprehension FAIL...:shakes head:

No one has stated they receive priority treatment based on amounts paid. However, what was stated is that because we spent so much money we made it a priority to know the interworkings of that company. This comes from building relationships and having constant communications... Usually meaning if GTM didnt answer the phone or we werent able to get the answer we wanted. We called up again that same day, we sent email follow ups after every call. We travelled out to the shop... On big builds like mine and Zeliminator this is almost a must no matter who is building your car.

This isnt being condescending this is being real! yeah someone may have lost $5k but does that compare to $26k like Zeliminator? are you really comparing the two? When I stated that those who spent more and are on the hook for more arent running for the pitchforks and are not blaming Gamma. We are taking a more rational and logical approach. By all means blame Gamma all you want. but facts are facts you can ignore them all you want and all it will do is make you look the fool.

I am taking a calmer head to the situation because I consider my money lost and anything I get in return is only a bonus! Do I want a full refund? HELL YEAH! Will I get the full refund? NO... Its a reality I have come to grips with. Call it lessons learned and I do all my own work now.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ARE THEY LIABLE MORALLY OR LEGALLY!!! THEY BOUGHT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY!

Your whole premise is based on inaccurate information what you see and hear on the forum. If they bought the business from Sam including assets then yes they would have a liability both legally and morally. Sam tried to sell the business several times and couldnt reach agreements with any of the possible buyers. I was not trying to put this out there but The only deal he could bring down was just for the intellectual rights and the relationships with manufacturers. This is based on the second hand information I received from insiders.



Tiller, Have you called them? Have you emailed them about your situation and sent them the invoices? I had to take the first steps to even get a response.

If we dont do the due dillegence we cant expect a new company to go find every bad situation GTM did. Just as an FYI... Sam was a horrible record keeper from what I saw and heard and with his health situation it got way worse! You hoped something didnt get left on his desk. It was known by several people that anything that landed on his desk was lost forever.

What should be allowed to happen is let Gamma become a member on the forum, so anyone who had a dog in the fight (GTM bs) is allowed to get answers transparently. No 3rd party should be allowed to post in the thread. At least give them a chance to tell their side. They havent been allowed to speak one word or even make a statement on if they intend to do anything about the group buy.

I also stated earlier that those numbers are for the people of the group buy that said that they paid 7k-8.5k upfront. If you base it off the general consensus that a single TT kit from a non-group buy costs 10k. So yeah for people who do not have any piece of their kit, another payment may have to be made because Sam's scam was a Group Buy discounted price of which I do not believe Gamma Motors will honor because then at that point they are literally handing out new kits to unhappy GTM customers.

But for that point you stated; if you can get it completed cheaper elsewhere do so and it is a win win for you (the OP of the missing SC and piping) at that point besides being ripped off by Sam. You avoid Gamma's $2200 and you don't have to wait in line with the lawsuits (although if you have it completed and want to try and get the money you spent to complete the kit reimbursed I would suggest so)


Besides that for the list of people who have paid an immense amount of money and have no kit what-so-ever it seems like you should contact Gamma Motors and let them know the situation about your old kit with Sam and see what offer they have for you.
Ask them literally "What is the best deal you can give me?" just straight up.
Negotiate. Try and get the best deal possible so you can end up with your kit and install it. Once you pay the amount with Gamma Motors, Get yourself in line with the lawsuit to get your money refunded that you had to pay on top of the Group buy "paid in full" amount; that way everyone who got screwed over by SAM gets their kit owed by SAM from GAMMA Motors, but in the end if the lawsuit doesn't crumble under a Bankruptcy filing from Sam, you will all get your money back for the Kit owed to you from Sam, maybe include the installation in there as damages for the delays. Not only that if you really are that upset about how everything has played out in REALITY, please file for emotional and physical duress as well so Sam will have to pay you more damages.
Seem like a fair compromise?

Their email correspondence posted in the other thread states very clearly their intentions. We do not need to rehash it.

I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying. Thats one reason why I love the Z community. We have each others back. The reason Sam and GTM were kicked off is because it was in fact a scam. But Gamma has become a victim by association. I also agree that hiring Sam was an absurdly bad idea, and it bit them in the ***. But the fact of the matter is, Gamma hasn't done anything wrong to the community yet lol. At least allow them the chance to do good before you stick a fork in them.

Again Reading comprehension fail!!!!!

We are stating you have to go get yours if you want yours. But also note this company is a new company with the only link to the old GTM was the bought intellectual Property.....

Yes you can raise your voice all you want but there will be a point that you will do more harm than good! When a Company sees a Market as unfavorable they move on and all those who were trying to get reperations get screwed because you had a chip on your shoulder trying to save the whole world.

So to the audience reading this thread: You have a few choices...

1. Keep a calm head and read the facts laid out in this thread by me and several others who actually knew what was going on. Make an educated decision and buy through an intermediary like Todd @ vivid

2. Grab your pitchfork and burn all the bridges without giving the company a chance to rectify the situation. Like Zbrah is doing...

3. Stay silent and watch it unfold.

The choice is yours...

Ill have to refresh my memory on that one.

when have I ever said Vivid is a bunch of crooks or scam artists like Sam?

never.

I have only mentioned poor business practices of GTM and now Gamma dealing with it. not once have I mentioned your company.

so please if you'd like to continue on a fun new tangent we can. I enjoy the entertainment. :yum:

where's the old vivid guy I used to go back and forth with about that crappy meistershaft exhaust stuff and played fantasy football with. I liked him. he could read posts and not think i'm posting about his job when I haven't.

:facepalm:

Lets stay on track guys... No more chit chat unless you have a personal experience with Gamma to report...

Excuse us for acting and basing our opinions with logical and rational evidence? remember what you said? its business 101? :tup:

If you look at the whole thread you and one other are the only ones who are still bashing on everything. Have you once tried to actually help a forum member come up with a resolution or just turn down everything Bullitt and I have said based on past offenses of a person no longer related to Gamma motors and no previously owed product by Sam was bought by Gamma Motors? Hmm?

Tiller and others are looking for evidence to find a resolution of which we are providing and trying to help them work around the business side and get these disputes settled

Also you can be a good community member by doing as Todd asked from Vivid Racing and keep from bashing their company by using their name in bad form.
If you have a real problem with Sam still go back to the original thread that formed when Sam originally started ripping people off with the scam and start posting there again about how bad of a guy sam is.

Or maybe help out by going and getting a thread started for people that want to organize a lawsuit against Sam. :tup:
Instead of sit there and point fingers. :tiphat:

[QUOTE=FPenvy;3323562]when have I ever said Vivid is a bunch of crooks or scam artists like Sam?

never.

I have only mentioned poor business practices of GTM and now Gamma dealing with it. not once have I mentioned your company.

Sorry, thought you were directing that towards me. You weren't?

So it's FACT that if you were part of the group buy Gamma will send you your kit for an additional $2200 payment or that is something you just stated?

we are saying call them...