VVEL if you can't tune it why not modify it

colin55 · 06-12-2014, 05:19 PM

Hey all,

As the title suggests, if we cant tune vvel for more lift, why can't we alter the amount of lift that the control shaft 'thinks' its going to get.
I have read about the screw adjustment, but I imagine that will alter the lift at idle which we don't want.

So I wonder if someone with a bit of machining know how, can re-engineer the 'output cam'.

As you can see in the pic below, it seems that two 'output cams' are driven by one ' link b'.

So if we could make a replacement output cam / shoe piece (see pics) you could adjust the lift at any point.

If you left the profile of the shoe the same for the first half, lift up till that point would be unaltered.

But if you then changed the profile for the final part of the shoe, you could give more lift just at 'peak lift.

eg:

standard lift altered lift
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6.5
7 7.5
8 9
9 10
10 11
11 12.5
??

excuse my crap explanation, hopefully these equally crap pics will help.

Cheers.

1slow370 · 06-12-2014, 08:44 PM

because that shaft is 10 mother bitches to take apart and get back together to get the output cam pieces off. then you need to find a shop that will design a fixture to grind the things, and then you need shops that are willing to do this work for people because no one is going to want to take that shaft apart themselves, and then because you would have reground a different profile on it you would need longer valves/thicker lifters to make up the clearances, and at the end of the day its going to cost 2-3x more than an hr head swap and big cams.

colin55 · 06-13-2014, 07:27 AM

I suppose that is a pretty good sum of reasons not to go down that road.

Did anyone ever experiment with the adjustment screws? (and actually start the engine)

jwick · 06-13-2014, 08:49 AM

What are you referring to as 'tuning the VVEL'? My tune has some VVEL adjustment in it.

takjak2 · 06-13-2014, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin55

Did anyone ever experiment with the adjustment screws? (and actually start the engine)

One of Megan's engines?

Megan370z · 06-13-2014, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takjak2

One of Megan's engines?

nop I didn't

takjak2 · 06-13-2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan370z

nop I didn't

Found the post I was thinking about: VK Swap Discussion...

JWT has looked at the VVEL adjustment screw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyubJV4siss

1slow370 · 06-13-2014, 09:04 PM

I may have some info on this in a couple months, ill post up when i know more

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

Cell · 06-14-2014, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

because that shaft is 10 mother bitches to take apart and get back together to get the output cam pieces off. then you need to find a shop that will design a fixture to grind the things, and then you need shops that are willing to do this work for people because no one is going to want to take that shaft apart themselves, and then because you would have reground a different profile on it you would need longer valves/thicker lifters to make up the clearances, and at the end of the day its going to cost 2-3x more than an hr head swap and big cams.

Has anyone done a HR head swap yet and gotten some good dyno results?

Megan370z · 06-14-2014, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cell

Has anyone done a HR head swap yet and gotten some good dyno results?

Me and Shamu are the only 2 known guys on thisforum to have done the HR head swap.
but
in the pro racing , it is quite popular if rules allow.

depending of the intake setup with an very aggressive cams the result as far as I saw was about 380 with the stock plastic intake manifold up to 414whp with ITB & Motec and then 405+ with an air boxed ITB setup ... this is a friend of mine ( Onpointdyno.com )

With some more intake/exhaust tuning, there is still quite a bit under the table and . Im talking about the stock 370z stroke which is a 3.7L

Shamu is 4.0L or 4.2L, I cant rememeber but this should be a nice gain over the 3.7L.

colin55 · 06-15-2014, 12:44 AM

It'll be good to find out a way to make a bit more power utilising VVEL, seems such a shame if it doesn't get cracked.
It would be interesting to tinker with the screw a little bit, 1/4, 1/2 a turn of adjustment on all screws. Then Dyno.
As long as you kept track of exactly how much each screw was turned it would be easy to return to standard.
That way you can keep turning them incrementally till peak power is made.
Once someone does that and shares their findings, the rest of us could wind the screws that amount.

It's good to hear some people are still trying 1slow370

jwick · 06-15-2014, 12:50 AM

UpRev has this capability

colin55 · 06-15-2014, 01:49 AM

It does? Some seem to say so but where is any proof.

jwick · 06-15-2014, 01:51 AM

My tuner has been tuning UpRev for a couple years now. My turbo tune definitely has VVEL adjustment to it

colin55 · 06-15-2014, 02:07 AM

you do mean VVEL and not C-VTC yeah?

If it is VVEL where is any info, how much is the lift & duration being adjusted?
What's working for N/A? how bout boosted?

It seems bloody hard to find any info about

06-12-2014, 05:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
colin55 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 6 Drives: na Rep Power: 11	VVEL if you can't tune it why not modify it Hey all, As the title suggests, if we cant tune vvel for more lift, why can't we alter the amount of lift that the control shaft 'thinks' its going to get. I have read about the screw adjustment, but I imagine that will alter the lift at idle which we don't want. So I wonder if someone with a bit of machining know how, can re-engineer the 'output cam'. As you can see in the pic below, it seems that two 'output cams' are driven by one ' link b'. So if we could make a replacement output cam / shoe piece (see pics) you could adjust the lift at any point. If you left the profile of the shoe the same for the first half, lift up till that point would be unaltered. But if you then changed the profile for the final part of the shoe, you could give more lift just at 'peak lift. eg: standard lift altered lift 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 9 9 10 10 11 11 12.5 ?? excuse my crap explanation, hopefully these equally crap pics will help. Cheers.

06-12-2014, 08:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	because that shaft is 10 mother bitches to take apart and get back together to get the output cam pieces off. then you need to find a shop that will design a fixture to grind the things, and then you need shops that are willing to do this work for people because no one is going to want to take that shaft apart themselves, and then because you would have reground a different profile on it you would need longer valves/thicker lifters to make up the clearances, and at the end of the day its going to cost 2-3x more than an hr head swap and big cams. phunk and BGTV8 like this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

06-13-2014, 08:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465056	What are you referring to as 'tuning the VVEL'? My tune has some VVEL adjustment in it. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

06-13-2014, 09:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	I may have some info on this in a couple months, ill post up when i know more Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

06-15-2014, 12:50 AM	#12 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465056	UpRev has this capability Megan370z likes this. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

06-13-2014, 07:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
colin55 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 6 Drives: na Rep Power: 11	I suppose that is a pretty good sum of reasons not to go down that road. Did anyone ever experiment with the adjustment screws? (and actually start the engine)

06-15-2014, 12:44 AM	#11 (permalink)
colin55 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 6 Drives: na Rep Power: 11	It'll be good to find out a way to make a bit more power utilising VVEL, seems such a shame if it doesn't get cracked. It would be interesting to tinker with the screw a little bit, 1/4, 1/2 a turn of adjustment on all screws. Then Dyno. As long as you kept track of exactly how much each screw was turned it would be easy to return to standard. That way you can keep turning them incrementally till peak power is made. Once someone does that and shares their findings, the rest of us could wind the screws that amount. It's good to hear some people are still trying 1slow370

06-15-2014, 01:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
colin55 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 6 Drives: na Rep Power: 11	It does? Some seem to say so but where is any proof.

06-15-2014, 01:51 AM	#14 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465056	My tuner has been tuning UpRev for a couple years now. My turbo tune definitely has VVEL adjustment to it __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

06-15-2014, 02:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
colin55 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 6 Drives: na Rep Power: 11	you do mean VVEL and not C-VTC yeah? If it is VVEL where is any info, how much is the lift & duration being adjusted? What's working for N/A? how bout boosted? It seems bloody hard to find any info about

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