400 whp on N/A VQ possible?

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 10:26 AM

Just contacted ferrea for custom honeycomb valve springs

Eclipz · 06-23-2015, 10:56 AM

Hey Elmo,

A member had GTM stage 1 valvetrain and headwork along with JUN cams on his Z, plus other goodies. Here is his thread: John's Sweet NA build You may want to search his thread because it is 29 pages. The tune was on a dynapack with 7500 rpm redline, so it may be hard to compare with your dyno/tune. And if I recall correctly, he no longer has the car anymore. I hope this helps.

jwick · 06-23-2015, 10:59 AM

Probably been repeated in here already but 1slowZ has the NA record at like 380ish. It took a ton of one off mods to get there and he'd of spent much less adding FI and got another 150whp too.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipz

Hey Elmo,

A member had GTM stage 1 valvetrain and headwork along with JUN cams on his Z, plus other goodies. Here is his thread: John's Sweet NA build You may want to search his thread because it is 29 pages. The tune was on a dynopak with 7500 rpm redline, so it may be hard to compare with your dyno/tune. And if I recall correctly, he no longer has the car anymore. I hope this helps.

And it never got tuned well enough to really show what the build could do. It's a moot point though, since you'll never get a single part from GTM.

Eclipz · 06-23-2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

And it never got tuned well enough to really show what the build could do. It's a moot point though, since you'll never get a single part from GTM.

This is the sad truth

I remember Navyboy had some issues getting his GTM parts.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipz

This is the sad truth

I remember Navyboy had some issues getting his GTM parts.

Yeah, getting parts from GTM was spotty at best even before the whole MHI clusterfuck. There are people who claim that things are different and GTM will make a comeback, but anyone who thinks they will get anything from Sam but excuses and sob stories is a complete retard.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Probably been repeated in here already but 1slowZ has the NA record at like 380ish. It took a ton of one off mods to get there and he'd of spent much less adding FI and got another 150whp too.

Yeah, but i want to road race my car, going TT will cost me alot more than 20 grand to make the cat reliable. Plus i just love all motor cars, so i don't mind putting the money into it.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

Yeah, but i want to road race my car, going TT will cost me alot more than 20 grand to make the cat reliable. Plus i just love all motor cars, so i don't mind putting the money into it.

You seem to be operating under the impression a 400whp NA build will be reliable. It won't be. It's getting wrung out within an inch of it's life. Especially for a track build. You're doing it for the love of an NA car ONLY. A properly set up 400whp FI car will be a much more reliable vehicle than a NA build.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 11:47 AM

How did you come up with the 400whp number as a goal? Have you ever had a vehicle with that much power before? Are you willing to give up a lot of driveability to get there?

jwick · 06-23-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

Yeah, but i want to road race my car, going TT will cost me alot more than 20 grand to make the cat reliable. Plus i just love all motor cars, so i don't mind putting the money into it.

It's going to cost you more than 20k to get 400whp NA car and even then it likely won't be reliable.

For anything over 350 on this platform you need FI or a motor swap.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

How did you come up with the 400whp number as a goal? Have you ever had a vehicle with that much power before? Are you willing to give up a lot of driveability to get there?

This will be my first 400 whp car. Far as reliability guess when i get the car built and take it out to the track ill let you all know how to it holds up. Properly tune any vehicle and it will hold up, staying NA has lot lots parts to go wrong. 400whp is my goal for this car. Dry sump set up is going to be one of the most expensive parts of the build. Plus i don't really drive the car that much, i have another DD.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

It's going to cost you more than 20k to get 400whp NA car and even then it likely won't be reliable.

For anything over 350 on this platform you need FI or a motor swap.

Right now maybe ,maybe not. I'm not in a rush. People are making parts for the NA crowd, ill just have to be patient with the build ands source out everything before i pull the trigger. Im already talking to a couple companies now about getting parts.

njobe89 · 06-23-2015, 12:41 PM

i still don't get why you are willing to spend so much money for 400whp. when with that much money you could have 600whp. i know you want 400whp, but you could just turn the boost down and have your 400whp. to me it makes no sense to spend 15-20k for 400whp when you can have 600whp.

that would be like buying one chicken wing at $10 or buying the whole chicken at $10.

idk i guess i'm just weird lol

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njobe89

i still don't get why you are willing to spend so much money for 400whp. when with that much money you could have 600whp. i know you want 400whp, but you could just turn the boost down and have your 400whp. to me it makes no sense to spend 15-20k for 400whp when you can have 600whp.

that would be like buying one chicken wing at $10 or buying the whole chicken at $10.

idk i guess i'm just weird lol

You're not the weird one. It's absolutely ***-backwards. I'm guessing the OP has never had a turbo car, and he's also never driven something like he's thinking of building. This smells like one of those projects that either
A. Never get completed
B. Get completed and never come close to making the planned power
C. Get completed at a far greater cost than the next best option, and is so peaky, unreliable, can't run on pump gas and doesn't perform at the level the builder would want, so the car gets sold.

A 400whp TT setup on the stock block will be a far more reliable vehicle than a 400whp NA car. That 400whp NA car is going to have very little area under the curve and you'll have to wring it out to get anywhere. At the same time that 400whp turbo car has a lot more headroom for growth.

OP, good luck but the deck is absolutely stacked against you. You're going to be out there on a limb so far that very few people will be able to offer insight, all the parts you need will be one-offs and priced accordingly, and it seems like some of the questions you're asking show a lack of experience that will be an absolute stumbling block in a project like this.

For example, thinking a NA motor revved way above the stock redline is somehow more reliable than a boosted setup. Sure, One guy somewhere did it and it lived long enough for him to sell the car a few weeks later. That's what you're using as your test case. RPM will kill a motor a hell of a lot faster than boost.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 02:43 PM

Just waiting on n parts, i like na motors. You all can bash me and this project all you want, i really don't care about your negative comments. It will get done. Might tale longer than expected but im willing to wait.

06-23-2015, 10:56 AM	#197 (permalink)
Eclipz Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Tampa Posts: 360 Drives: 06 Eclipse GS Rep Power: 11	Hey Elmo, A member had GTM stage 1 valvetrain and headwork along with JUN cams on his Z, plus other goodies. Here is his thread: John's Sweet NA build You may want to search his thread because it is 29 pages. The tune was on a dynapack with 7500 rpm redline, so it may be hard to compare with your dyno/tune. And if I recall correctly, he no longer has the car anymore. I hope this helps. Elmo370z likes this. Last edited by Eclipz; 06-23-2015 at 11:00 AM.

06-23-2015, 10:59 AM	#198 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465056	Probably been repeated in here already but 1slowZ has the NA record at like 380ish. It took a ton of one off mods to get there and he'd of spent much less adding FI and got another 150whp too. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

06-23-2015, 11:47 AM	#204 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	How did you come up with the 400whp number as a goal? Have you ever had a vehicle with that much power before? Are you willing to give up a lot of driveability to get there? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

06-23-2015, 12:41 PM	#208 (permalink)
njobe89 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 5,227 Drives: 2013 370z BS 6MT Rep Power: 174283	i still don't get why you are willing to spend so much money for 400whp. when with that much money you could have 600whp. i know you want 400whp, but you could just turn the boost down and have your 400whp. to me it makes no sense to spend 15-20k for 400whp when you can have 600whp. that would be like buying one chicken wing at $10 or buying the whole chicken at $10. idk i guess i'm just weird lol Chuck33079 likes this. __________________ 2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8 Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

06-23-2015, 10:26 AM	#196 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,707 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Just contacted ferrea for custom honeycomb valve springs

06-23-2015, 02:43 PM	#210 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,707 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Just waiting on n parts, i like na motors. You all can bash me and this project all you want, i really don't care about your negative comments. It will get done. Might tale longer than expected but im willing to wait.