Is my oil cooler overkill for the street?

SouthArk370Z · 08-28-2013, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarcinczyk14

... the thermostatic plate on my z1 kit is rated at 169 degrees by the way. maybe thats a little too early for street driving?

Quit worrying about it. As long as you are keeping your temps around 180 during normal driving, temps don't rise too much when driving hard, and it's warming up properly, it doesn't really matter where the t'stat is set.

luigi90210 · 08-29-2013, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by critical

lol thicker as in has a higher viscosity. you didn't read what i said i guess.

Yes its more viscous. Viscosity is how well it flows, higher viscosity means it won't flow as well as warm oil with a lower viscosity.

Think of it like water and maple syrup, maple syrup takes longer to flow anywhere because it has a higher viscosity than water does

SouthArk370Z · 08-28-2013, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by critical

viscosity is higher at 140 than 180 so it being thinner couldn't be a reason for bearing damage. ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi90210

its the exact opposite, because oil is thicker cold, it can starve the engine when cold because the oil is thicker and doesnt flow as well as a thinner oil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

... You're right on the viscosity. It's thicker at lower temps. ...

Oops. Thanks for the corrections.

1cleanZ · 08-29-2013, 10:24 AM

I have a 34row and it takes quite a while for my temps to get up to 180. Even this week, its been in the upper 90's every single day, and after my 10 mile drive home, my oil temps STILL weren't at 180.

someone said don't go over 3k until your temps are at 180degrees? That can't be completely true....

Chuck33079 · 08-29-2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1cleanZ

someone said don't go over 3k until your temps are at 180degrees? That can't be completely true....

I said I don't. I'm at 180 degrees in 4-5 miles on my morning commute. Just long enough to get out of the neighborhood and onto the freeway. Light throttle, no boost until the oil is at running temp. It's just a habit. Phunk doesn't do this, and his motor is obviously doing just fine.

phunk · 08-29-2013, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Phunk doesn't do this, and his motor is obviously doing just fine.

Its hanging in there!

RegPei · 08-29-2013, 01:22 PM

I've always thought the reason you don't rev the engine when the oil temperature is cold is due to the high oil pressure this would result. The higher the viscosity, the higher the oil pressure will be for a given RPM. Higher oil pressure can pop oil seals/gaskets and those lines to/from your cooler.

At the bottom of the oil pressure gauge DIY, the OP mentioned his observation after installing the gauge:

DIY: Oil Pressure Gauge

So the key at the low temperature end is less oil temperature than oil pressure. If you really need to stomp on it going an average of 15-18 MPH (5-6 mi in 20 mins), you could in theory switch to a lower viscosity oil just to be safe or get an oil pressure gauge.

phunk · 08-29-2013, 01:58 PM

There is a regulator in the oil pump that will prevent oil pressure from getting to high

1slow370 · 09-01-2013, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

There is a regulator in the oil pump that will prevent oil pressure from getting to high

there is a tiny regulator in the pump that attempts to keep the oil pressure from getting to high, can't remember which team it was but one of the HR race cars was noting over 110psi at 8000rpm.it's to bad the pump is located on the crank snout or it would be a great pump for a wet sump system, unfortunately high rpm's still effect it similar to the issues the old rb26's had when the crank nose vibrates it puts a huge strain on the tight clearances in the pump, imo this is what most likely killed megan370's motor not the vvel. the pickup has a screen in it so it is unlikely that a pin from the vvel got sucked into the pump and more likely that the pump blew cuz his rev limiter was raised, which lead to his vvel roasting and blowing.

phunk · 09-02-2013, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

there is a tiny regulator in the pump that attempts to keep the oil pressure from getting to high, can't remember which team it was but one of the HR race cars was noting over 110psi at 8000rpm.it's to bad the pump is located on the crank snout or it would be a great pump for a wet sump system, unfortunately high rpm's still effect it similar to the issues the old rb26's had when the crank nose vibrates it puts a huge strain on the tight clearances in the pump, imo this is what most likely killed megan370's motor not the vvel. the pickup has a screen in it so it is unlikely that a pin from the vvel got sucked into the pump and more likely that the pump blew cuz his rev limiter was raised, which lead to his vvel roasting and blowing.

I agree. VQ pumps have been notorious for failure. But our VHR's 7500rpm redline was enough to grenade the classic DE pump. So we are better off than the VQ was around 2003. I believe that the VR38 took the pump off the crank and put it down on a chain. But, the Toyota 2JZ seemed to have no problems with the oil pump drive gear interfacing directly on the crankshaft... so there is hope in working with it.

Rusty · 09-03-2013, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

there is a tiny regulator in the pump that attempts to keep the oil pressure from getting to high, can't remember which team it was but one of the HR race cars was noting over 110psi at 8000rpm.it's to bad the pump is located on the crank snout or it would be a great pump for a wet sump system, unfortunately high rpm's still effect it similar to the issues the old rb26's had when the crank nose vibrates it puts a huge strain on the tight clearances in the pump, imo this is what most likely killed megan370's motor not the vvel. the pickup has a screen in it so it is unlikely that a pin from the vvel got sucked into the pump and more likely that the pump blew cuz his rev limiter was raised, which lead to his vvel roasting and blowing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

I agree. VQ pumps have been notorious for failure. But our VHR's 7500rpm redline was enough to grenade the classic DE pump. So we are better off than the VQ was around 2003. I believe that the VR38 took the pump off the crank and put it down on a chain. But, the Toyota 2JZ seemed to have no problems with the oil pump drive gear interfacing directly on the crankshaft... so there is hope in working with it.

This is why I won't put a lightweight dampener on my Z. The change in vibration pitch on the end of the crankshaft.

1slow370 · 09-11-2013, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

I agree. VQ pumps have been notorious for failure. But our VHR's 7500rpm redline was enough to grenade the classic DE pump. So we are better off than the VQ was around 2003. I believe that the VR38 took the pump off the crank and put it down on a chain. But, the Toyota 2JZ seemed to have no problems with the oil pump drive gear interfacing directly on the crankshaft... so there is hope in working with it.

Yes the 2JZ pump has a much better reputation but the design on it is clearly more durable. It uses a spline to drive the center gear meaning the center gear has a more uniform thickness instead of the 2 large flats that leave thin spots in the gears in the corners, the spline is also going to absorb the crank vibrations smoother than the Flats which tend to knock around more violently at high speed. The gear set also uses the older tooth style for pump itself which moves less oil, but does give you a more durable outer gear that is more resistant to minor vibration. the vq pump does flow more oil, and probably draws less power but is not as stable at high rpms, if you look toyota uses a vq style gearset and flat drive on the slower v6 and v8 engines.

PaulZ370 · 09-01-2013, 03:34 PM

I have a 19-row oil cooler, and when I first installed it, I suffered extremely long oil warm-up times. I like to see at least 180°F on my oil temp's before I shut her off again because I want to make sure that any water residue from the internal combustion reaction that made it into the oil is evaporated out and not remain in the sump contaminating it. My solution was to place a thin aluminum plate as an air-barrier on the front of the cooler blocking off all but 4-5 rows on top. I secured it with industrial strength double stick tape to hold it in place.

Even now, during winter time in 40-ish degree weather, my commute to work (9 mile trip) I am barely at 180°F even though I'm driving in traffic conditions with a few lights. During the summer, with 80/90°F temps, it still takes about 5-8 minutes before temps reach 180, and then stabilize around 200°F under normal driving conditions. Under spirited driving, oil temps climb to 210 - 220°F depending on ambient temp and how hard I'm pushing, but cool off relatively quickly afterwards when I return to normal driving (steady speed, no hard acceleration).

Hope this helps in better understanding what you might want to do.

bmarcinczyk14 · 09-03-2013, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulZ370

I have a 19-row oil cooler, and when I first installed it, I suffered extremely long oil warm-up times. I like to see at least 180°F on my oil temp's before I shut her off again because I want to make sure that any water residue from the internal combustion reaction that made it into the oil is evaporated out and not remain in the sump contaminating it. My solution was to place a thin aluminum plate as an air-barrier on the front of the cooler blocking off all but 4-5 rows on top. I secured it with industrial strength double stick tape to hold it in place.

Even now, during winter time in 40-ish degree weather, my commute to work (9 mile trip) I am barely at 180°F even though I'm driving in traffic conditions with a few lights. During the summer, with 80/90°F temps, it still takes about 5-8 minutes before temps reach 180, and then stabilize around 200°F under normal driving conditions. Under spirited driving, oil temps climb to 210 - 220°F depending on ambient temp and how hard I'm pushing, but cool off relatively quickly afterwards when I return to normal driving (steady speed, no hard acceleration).

Hope this helps in better understanding what you might want to do.

Did you have a thermostatic plate when you initially installed ur oil cooler?

BOLIO 671 · 09-03-2013, 10:04 AM

What size Oil Cooler do you guys recommend for DD and Spirited/Weekend Tracking? A friend of mine had a 25 Row and told me it was good for DD but that his Temps hit 240 after a few rounds at the track. Would a 34 Row be more suffice?

08-29-2013, 10:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
1cleanZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 1,132 Drives: '09 PW Nismo Rep Power: 22	I have a 34row and it takes quite a while for my temps to get up to 180. Even this week, its been in the upper 90's every single day, and after my 10 mile drive home, my oil temps STILL weren't at 180. someone said don't go over 3k until your temps are at 180degrees? That can't be completely true.... __________________ 2009 PW Nismo #0021 -My Built Progress >>1cleanG to 1cleanZ<< Team NextLevel

08-29-2013, 01:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
RegPei Base Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: La Palma, CA Posts: 62 Drives: 09 MB M6 Spt Rep Power: 15	I've always thought the reason you don't rev the engine when the oil temperature is cold is due to the high oil pressure this would result. The higher the viscosity, the higher the oil pressure will be for a given RPM. Higher oil pressure can pop oil seals/gaskets and those lines to/from your cooler. At the bottom of the oil pressure gauge DIY, the OP mentioned his observation after installing the gauge: DIY: Oil Pressure Gauge So the key at the low temperature end is less oil temperature than oil pressure. If you really need to stomp on it going an average of 15-18 MPH (5-6 mi in 20 mins), you could in theory switch to a lower viscosity oil just to be safe or get an oil pressure gauge. Chuck33079 and luigi90210 like this.

08-29-2013, 01:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,669 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974725	There is a regulator in the oil pump that will prevent oil pressure from getting to high __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

09-01-2013, 03:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
PaulZ370 Track Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Covington, LA Posts: 956 Drives: 011 370 BSM/T/SP/6MT Rep Power: 18	I have a 19-row oil cooler, and when I first installed it, I suffered extremely long oil warm-up times. I like to see at least 180°F on my oil temp's before I shut her off again because I want to make sure that any water residue from the internal combustion reaction that made it into the oil is evaporated out and not remain in the sump contaminating it. My solution was to place a thin aluminum plate as an air-barrier on the front of the cooler blocking off all but 4-5 rows on top. I secured it with industrial strength double stick tape to hold it in place. Even now, during winter time in 40-ish degree weather, my commute to work (9 mile trip) I am barely at 180°F even though I'm driving in traffic conditions with a few lights. During the summer, with 80/90°F temps, it still takes about 5-8 minutes before temps reach 180, and then stabilize around 200°F under normal driving conditions. Under spirited driving, oil temps climb to 210 - 220°F depending on ambient temp and how hard I'm pushing, but cool off relatively quickly afterwards when I return to normal driving (steady speed, no hard acceleration). Hope this helps in better understanding what you might want to do. gurneyeagle likes this. __________________ *BD2ZBN :: 2011 BSM/TRG/SP/6MT/Stillen Oil Cooler/K&N CAI/Michelin PSS/Brake Light/EIBACH Sway Bars/FI Res. HFC+18" Res. CBE/Morimoto XB LED/DRLs/10mm Spacers* Last edited by PaulZ370; 09-01-2013 at 03:39 PM.

09-03-2013, 10:04 AM	#15 (permalink)
BOLIO 671 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: GUAHAN Posts: 1,198 Drives: To & From then Back Rep Power: 3401	What size Oil Cooler do you guys recommend for DD and Spirited/Weekend Tracking? A friend of mine had a 25 Row and told me it was good for DD but that his Temps hit 240 after a few rounds at the track. Would a 34 Row be more suffice? __________________ 2013 Nismo Z34 / FI TT #091 / IG: @lilzilla_z34

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