Carbon Fiber DriveShaft?

Chuck33079 · 07-05-2013, 08:28 AM

The rotors will absolutely make a difference. The driveshaft I'm not as convinced. If the stock driveshaft was steel swapping it would be a good idea. Saving 10-15 lbs would be very noticeable. Since its already composite, I doubt there's more than a couple of pounds to save. Still, I'd love to be wrong. Someone go buy a full cf driveshaft and report back.

bldg636 · 07-05-2013, 08:40 AM

speaking of 2 piece rotors . . . are the CZPs the lightest out there? Any sacrifice in brakikng performance with these light rotors?

LafitteZ · 07-05-2013, 09:12 AM

The light driveshaft is doing wonders on the g37s. They come with a 35 lb 2 piece steel ds. Going from our ds to another carbon drive shaft wouldn't be worth the price.

SS_Firehawk · 07-05-2013, 09:35 AM

This is what I was trying to say

Rotating Mass, Available Horsepower, and Acceleration

SS_Firehawk · 07-05-2013, 09:41 AM

AWD makes a big diff because all four wheels are dirve wheels. It's not accurate to compare to a 2wd vehicle. It's comparing a best case and then relating to a worst case.

dirTy_shoeZ · 07-05-2013, 10:09 AM

i think the 1500 would be a good investment if your shaving weight, if you add 7lbs here 5lbs there etc etc it adds up. but thats something you focus on when your going dedicated race car or you can tackle it when your happy with your hp range. for me id like to get my car about 550 reliable whp and 3k lbs. just a personal goal for me for a car i daily/race.

synolimit · 07-05-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alstann

You'd be surprised: Dyno testing light weight rotors?

Granted, this was an Evo with AWD, but with the CZP 2-piece front rotor kit saving ~8 pounds per front corner, I could see some potential speed increase. For the rear wheels, I think only Racingbrake rotors would work, but whatever.

Do front rotors/wheels really matter since its not part of the "true" drive train?

Chuck33079 · 07-06-2013, 12:23 AM

Unsprung weight always matters more than sprung weight.

synolimit · 07-06-2013, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Unsprung weight always matters more than sprung weight.

Yeah I know, just curious. Losing about 30lbs off wheels and tires this week, really excited!

SS_Firehawk · 07-06-2013, 01:26 AM

I think we are debating from two slightly different perspectives here

Unsprung mass and rotational mass with performance improvement. Reducing rotational mass is all about where the weight is being lost on a spinning object where as unsprung mass is mass not being supported by the suspension. rotational mass depending on where it's removed can equal 4x the benefit of sprung mass, and removing unsprung mass can improve 2 fold. All I'm saying is because the weight lost on two piece rotors is close to the hub, it's not as dramatic as if the weight was lost on the disks themselves. Carbon ceramic rotors reduce the mass off the disks and that compared to a normal two piece is so much more beneficial to reducing rotational mass. Same theory with reducing wheel size from 20's or 19's down to 18's. Weight is reduced at the outer edges is substantial. That's why these light weight pulley's and flywheels make such a big difference in improving efficiency of the driveline.

Removing 40-50lbs of unsprung mass will have a much greater effect on suspension geometry and handling than straight line performance. Reducing rotational mass from the brakes is also reducing unsprung mass *** well. And the benefits will be seen on handling, not so much straight line. I think I'm starting to talk in circles lol.

Going from carbon composite to carbon fiber driveshaft is a terrible idea.

LafitteZ · 07-06-2013, 01:25 PM

Yes going from a light ds to another light drive shaft is not worth the cost. Going from a steel ds to a carbon ds is definitely worth it that's why Nissan did it on the 370z. Especially with our low torque v6. To our motors it will be much more important then a big torque v8. Just look at the WHP difference in the g37 and 370z. The only difference is the heavy 2 piece steel ds the g37 comes with. Also just as I said before light is key with our v6 engines so light wheels, light rotors is exceptionally important. The worth of these advantages will vary between person to person.

LafitteZ · 07-06-2013, 01:36 PM

To say the weight of front rotors, wheels ect ect doesn't matter is very untrue. Otherwise there wouldn't be light options of them.

Jordo! · 07-06-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetlife

the radiator support brackets are carbon fiber composite too!

Now that I didn't know!

Neat

Shadezz · 07-07-2013, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the info guess...

1slow370 · 07-07-2013, 04:02 PM

time for some info, the driveshaft on the z is a carbon fiber reinforced plastic, when they were making the plastic the mixed in a bunch of long strands of carbon fiber, they spin it and pump it through an extruder and mold the ends, true carbon fiber driveshafts are made from dry prepreg carbon sheets wound on a mandrel and autoclaved and significantly lighter and stronger tube, but at this point the heaviest parts of the drive shaft are going to be the ends anyway so not much weight left to gain. The g37's really benefit from this as they have two peice steel rear driveshafts so when they put a good aluminum shaft on they lose a solid 15lbs or more. the joints and journals on an average driveshaft weigh around 3-6lbs apiece so we have 2 and they have 4 the joints also draw a tiny amount of horsepower to redirect the power as the driveshaft moves so by getting rid of 2 joints and the carrier bearing they gain some more power there. more to the point of the Op's question all the 2door cars have carbon shafts the 4 door G's have 2 piece steel and awd drive has a 2 piece rear and a steel front shaft

07-05-2013, 08:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	The rotors will absolutely make a difference. The driveshaft I'm not as convinced. If the stock driveshaft was steel swapping it would be a good idea. Saving 10-15 lbs would be very noticeable. Since its already composite, I doubt there's more than a couple of pounds to save. Still, I'd love to be wrong. Someone go buy a full cf driveshaft and report back. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

07-05-2013, 08:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
bldg636 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 141 Drives: Nissan 370z Rep Power: 12	speaking of 2 piece rotors . . . are the CZPs the lightest out there? Any sacrifice in brakikng performance with these light rotors? __________________ Ross '11 370z Just getting started . . .

07-05-2013, 09:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	This is what I was trying to say Rotating Mass, Available Horsepower, and Acceleration gbrettin likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

07-05-2013, 09:41 AM	#20 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	AWD makes a big diff because all four wheels are dirve wheels. It's not accurate to compare to a 2wd vehicle. It's comparing a best case and then relating to a worst case. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

07-06-2013, 12:23 AM	#23 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	Unsprung weight always matters more than sprung weight. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

07-05-2013, 09:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	The light driveshaft is doing wonders on the g37s. They come with a 35 lb 2 piece steel ds. Going from our ds to another carbon drive shaft wouldn't be worth the price.

07-05-2013, 10:09 AM	#21 (permalink)
dirTy_shoeZ Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: san antonio, tx Posts: 779 Drives: 40th ANN TT Rep Power: 15	i think the 1500 would be a good investment if your shaving weight, if you add 7lbs here 5lbs there etc etc it adds up. but thats something you focus on when your going dedicated race car or you can tackle it when your happy with your hp range. for me id like to get my car about 550 reliable whp and 3k lbs. just a personal goal for me for a car i daily/race.

07-06-2013, 01:26 AM	#25 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	I think we are debating from two slightly different perspectives here Unsprung mass and rotational mass with performance improvement. Reducing rotational mass is all about where the weight is being lost on a spinning object where as unsprung mass is mass not being supported by the suspension. rotational mass depending on where it's removed can equal 4x the benefit of sprung mass, and removing unsprung mass can improve 2 fold. All I'm saying is because the weight lost on two piece rotors is close to the hub, it's not as dramatic as if the weight was lost on the disks themselves. Carbon ceramic rotors reduce the mass off the disks and that compared to a normal two piece is so much more beneficial to reducing rotational mass. Same theory with reducing wheel size from 20's or 19's down to 18's. Weight is reduced at the outer edges is substantial. That's why these light weight pulley's and flywheels make such a big difference in improving efficiency of the driveline. Removing 40-50lbs of unsprung mass will have a much greater effect on suspension geometry and handling than straight line performance. Reducing rotational mass from the brakes is also reducing unsprung mass * well. And the benefits will be seen on handling, not so much straight line. I think I'm starting to talk in circles lol. Going from carbon composite to carbon fiber driveshaft is a terrible idea. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd** 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

07-06-2013, 01:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	Yes going from a light ds to another light drive shaft is not worth the cost. Going from a steel ds to a carbon ds is definitely worth it that's why Nissan did it on the 370z. Especially with our low torque v6. To our motors it will be much more important then a big torque v8. Just look at the WHP difference in the g37 and 370z. The only difference is the heavy 2 piece steel ds the g37 comes with. Also just as I said before light is key with our v6 engines so light wheels, light rotors is exceptionally important. The worth of these advantages will vary between person to person.

07-06-2013, 01:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	To say the weight of front rotors, wheels ect ect doesn't matter is very untrue. Otherwise there wouldn't be light options of them.

07-07-2013, 11:53 AM	#29 (permalink)
Shadezz Track Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado Age: 42 Posts: 896 Drives: 2012 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 13	Thanks for the info guess... __________________ 2012 370Z BLACK EDITION/ FLT BLK Rays / 5% 3M Tint / DW's / Z1 SS & 2 Piece Rotors Nismo S-Tune OEM / Beluga CBE & Y-PIPE / DDX370 / GTR Start .4 Fluid / NST Blue Kit

07-07-2013, 04:02 PM	#30 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	time for some info, the driveshaft on the z is a carbon fiber reinforced plastic, when they were making the plastic the mixed in a bunch of long strands of carbon fiber, they spin it and pump it through an extruder and mold the ends, true carbon fiber driveshafts are made from dry prepreg carbon sheets wound on a mandrel and autoclaved and significantly lighter and stronger tube, but at this point the heaviest parts of the drive shaft are going to be the ends anyway so not much weight left to gain. The g37's really benefit from this as they have two peice steel rear driveshafts so when they put a good aluminum shaft on they lose a solid 15lbs or more. the joints and journals on an average driveshaft weigh around 3-6lbs apiece so we have 2 and they have 4 the joints also draw a tiny amount of horsepower to redirect the power as the driveshaft moves so by getting rid of 2 joints and the carrier bearing they gain some more power there. more to the point of the Op's question all the 2door cars have carbon shafts the 4 door G's have 2 piece steel and awd drive has a 2 piece rear and a steel front shaft DarkJak likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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