"Bogging" in first gear

IDZRVIT · 06-06-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman66

I will take it in, just to be safe, but I'm betting they don't find anything. I'm launching at say 2000RPM (not riding the clutch too much), then punching it. The "bog" is so pronounced that it almost throws me forward into my seatbelt, then throws me back into the seat when it "catches".

My twin turbo Porsche just accelerates smoothly off the line and its a turbocharged engine where you would expect turbo lag. The 370Z, being normally aspirated, should accelerate more smoothly than that. Really the best analogy I have is when we used to mess with 60's musclecars and Holley carbs, we'd get that "bog" off the line when you'd slam your foot to the floor and we would tune it by changing out power valves, jets, etc. until we got that smooth application of power. I'd never expect a modern EFI to bog like this off the line...

Try launching at 3000-3500 rpm and report back. I don't think you're revving high enough. My 'vette will bog if I launch below 3000 and hence, I've never launched below 3000 in the Z. It never bogs at 3000 and above.

bushman66 · 06-06-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

Try launching at 3000-3500 rpm and report back. I don't think you're revving high enough. My 'vette will bog if I launch below 3000 and hence, I've never launched below 3000 in the Z. It never bogs at 3000 and above.

Thanks, I agree. I guess my contention is that a modern EFI engine should not "Fuel bog" at any RPM when you slam your foot into it...if that makes sense

370Z Purist · 06-06-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman66

Thanks, I agree. I guess my contention is that a modern EFI engine should not "Fuel bog" at any RPM when you slam your foot into it...if that makes sense

If you let RPMs drop below 2k while off throttle and in gear, engine braking characteristics will change (harder braking after 2k, less braking before 2k). I've since gathered more or less that it's probably a VVEL profile change. If I do launch, I launch at 3-4K. No problems for me, unless I forget to turn off VDC

pedZ · 06-06-2012, 08:49 PM

Hey Bushman, I have some feedback from the UpRev tune. The tune definitely helped the issue. There still does seem to be a lag in the lower RPMs but it's not nearly as noticeable. I guess the best way I can explain it is that it has been smoothed out so that you don't notice it. In fact, the car is much smoother throughout the entire RPM range.

My car was running rich before the tune (in the 11s) and is now between 12.5 and 13. This helped out the car a lot and I gained 12hp overall from the tune.

ANMVQ · 06-06-2012, 12:24 PM

I bog like that also, but Auto, If I just slam it down the car goes nowhere for like 1-2 secs then takes off, If you slowly get on it" Stated above" it should solve that, But so hard to east into it off the line, I tried to do it at the track when I was there,But could not ease in,, LOL I either slammed it 2 times and the other 3 I idle-rolled out nad then hit it, But all three of those I lose traction,, LOL spinnng everywhere.

DIGItonium · 06-08-2012, 08:48 AM

Some of us have been complaining about this since day 1. A few owners sold the 370Z because of it.

Gas Pedal Delay
Loss in acceleration + throttle response ??

It is possible to modify the throttle tables to improve response. In fact, turning off ETC in the ECU does wonders for throttle response, but you lose all the safety features.
Smooth Throttle for UpRev

It's a strange feeling as if the ECU is holding back power because 1st gear starts are a bit rough at times when there is a noticeable transition from 1-3k RPM. There are times it really holds back power. With the foot on the ground, it feels like I'm in the wrong gear. Even the turbos take longer to spool up. It feels like it is aggressively cutting power or opening the throttle sooner.

bushman66 · 06-09-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Some of us have been complaining about this since day 1. A few owners sold the 370Z because of it.

Gas Pedal Delay
Loss in acceleration + throttle response ??

It is possible to modify the throttle tables to improve response. In fact, turning off ETC in the ECU does wonders for throttle response, but you lose all the safety features.
Smooth Throttle for UpRev

It's a strange feeling as if the ECU is holding back power because 1st gear starts are a bit rough at times when there is a noticeable transition from 1-3k RPM. There are times it really holds back power. With the foot on the ground, it feels like I'm in the wrong gear. Even the turbos take longer to spool up. It feels like it is aggressively cutting power or opening the throttle sooner.

The symptoms posted in the "Gas Pedal Delay" thread are EXACTLY what I am experiencing. Reading through that thread, tells me that this isNOT fixable, especially since I live in AZ...where nighttime temps are in the 90's. It didn't appear any of the top tuners had come up with a 100% solution?

2011 Nismo#91 · 06-08-2012, 09:23 AM

I only get a "bogging" in first when the VDC kicks in. Happened once trying to merge onto a highway from a stop, had the guy behind me pissed, honking, because I made him brake because it too long to get going again.

sfearl1 · 06-08-2012, 09:52 AM

It seems to get better w/ VDC off and the car warmed up (220*). Idk if it's an oil pressure thing or what, but pulling out of my subdivision in the morning is bog city. I drive 100% w/ VDC off now, since the car doesn't see the wet.

ANMVQ · 06-08-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfearl1

It seems to get better w/ VDC off and the car warmed up (220*). Idk if it's an oil pressure thing or what, but pulling out of my subdivision in the morning is bog city. I drive 100% w/ VDC off now, since the car doesn't see the wet.

I always drive with the VDC off, Still SSLLLOOWW on the line ,LOL Till I ramp up I had a DAMN Mazda SUV stay door to door with me

2011 Nismo#91 · 06-08-2012, 11:16 AM

The power (HP) on this engine at 2k is about 75hp. and at 3k about 125hp. If someone in a mini van just floors it at a light they will easily be putting out the same or more power if you just go with a nice smooth start in the hi 1ks low 2ks rpm.

tjlazer · 06-08-2012, 10:07 AM

I get this too and launching at 3K RPMs helps a lot. Anything less and a Civic can take you off the line. Very embarrasing.
I did notice that this starts to happen when the oil temps get to 180+.... Hmmm

ANMVQ · 06-08-2012, 10:11 AM

The above was very helpful, I know my tuner did some adjments to the plate % from a dig, Is that the same thing, I may have him take a look at you file. Thanx man

sfearl1 · 06-08-2012, 11:19 AM

roy'sz · 06-08-2012, 12:09 PM

depending on your launch rpm's and your light timing

06-06-2012, 08:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
pedZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,366 Drives: 11 Tour/Spt/Nav/6MT Rep Power: 28	Hey Bushman, I have some feedback from the UpRev tune. The tune definitely helped the issue. There still does seem to be a lag in the lower RPMs but it's not nearly as noticeable. I guess the best way I can explain it is that it has been smoothed out so that you don't notice it. In fact, the car is much smoother throughout the entire RPM range. My car was running rich before the tune (in the 11s) and is now between 12.5 and 13. This helped out the car a lot and I gained 12hp overall from the tune. __________________ 2011 Brilliant Silver Touring/Sport/Nav/6MT --- Build Journal F.I. SS 18" CBE \| Takeda CAI \| Z1 25-Row Oil Cooler \| Swift Springs \| Hotchkis Sway Bars \| H&R 15mm DRS Spacers F&R \| RJM Clutch Pedal \| UpRev Tune

06-06-2012, 12:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
ANMVQ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Framingham MA Posts: 2,732 Drives: 2014 Q50 AWD Rep Power: 20	I bog like that also, but Auto, If I just slam it down the car goes nowhere for like 1-2 secs then takes off, If you slowly get on it" Stated above" it should solve that, But so hard to east into it off the line, I tried to do it at the track when I was there,But could not ease in,, LOL I either slammed it 2 times and the other 3 I idle-rolled out nad then hit it, But all three of those I lose traction,, LOL spinnng everywhere. __________________ 14 Q50 AWD, ARK, ECUTEK (SEB), Takda,

06-08-2012, 08:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Some of us have been complaining about this since day 1. A few owners sold the 370Z because of it. Gas Pedal Delay Loss in acceleration + throttle response ?? It is possible to modify the throttle tables to improve response. In fact, turning off ETC in the ECU does wonders for throttle response, but you lose all the safety features. Smooth Throttle for UpRev It's a strange feeling as if the ECU is holding back power because 1st gear starts are a bit rough at times when there is a noticeable transition from 1-3k RPM. There are times it really holds back power. With the foot on the ground, it feels like I'm in the wrong gear. Even the turbos take longer to spool up. It feels like it is aggressively cutting power or opening the throttle sooner. __________________

06-08-2012, 09:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
sfearl1 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,300 Drives: 2013 FBO E85 GTR Rep Power: 18	It seems to get better w/ VDC off and the car warmed up (220). Idk if it's an oil pressure thing or what, but pulling out of my subdivision in the morning is bog city. I drive 100% w/ VDC off now, since the car doesn't see the wet. __________________ Scott*

06-08-2012, 10:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
tjlazer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tacoma Age: 53 Posts: 2,497 Drives: Z34, R35 Rep Power: 20	I get this too and launching at 3K RPMs helps a lot. Anything less and a Civic can take you off the line. Very embarrasing. I did notice that this starts to happen when the oil temps get to 180+.... Hmmm __________________ 2009 370Z Monterey Blue,Nismo Conversion,RE-11's, K&N Typhoon intakes,Blue Kickplates,Homelink,FI 18" CBE,ERZ HFCs,Hotchkis sways, Swift Spec-R, EVO-R Highwing, UPREV Last edited by tjlazer; 06-08-2012 at 10:10 AM.

06-08-2012, 09:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,413 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40570	I only get a "bogging" in first when the VDC kicks in. Happened once trying to merge onto a highway from a stop, had the guy behind me pissed, honking, because I made him brake because it too long to get going again.

06-08-2012, 11:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,413 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40570	The power (HP) on this engine at 2k is about 75hp. and at 3k about 125hp. If someone in a mini van just floors it at a light they will easily be putting out the same or more power if you just go with a nice smooth start in the hi 1ks low 2ks rpm.

06-08-2012, 10:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
ANMVQ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Framingham MA Posts: 2,732 Drives: 2014 Q50 AWD Rep Power: 20	The above was very helpful, I know my tuner did some adjments to the plate % from a dig, Is that the same thing, I may have him take a look at you file. Thanx man __________________ 14 Q50 AWD, ARK, ECUTEK (SEB), Takda,

06-08-2012, 11:19 AM	#14 (permalink)
sfearl1 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,300 Drives: 2013 FBO E85 GTR Rep Power: 18	__________________ Scott

06-08-2012, 12:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 17	depending on your launch rpm's and your light timing

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