7A Transmission...dare I commit heresy?

delusional · 12-07-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

yea that usually helps me get through most situations that require 5 seconds of waiting.

.... i mean

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Hmmm, that's never happened with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Sarcasm

i wonder if there is a software change between the years. My AT hasnt hesitated on any shifts when in manual mode. Now when it is in auto mode it does seem jerky, and a little indecisive at times.

really? mines done that quite a few times. I was riding in my friend's 2010 and his auto tranny seems flawless. might be my car

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

really? mines done that quite a few times. I was riding in my friend's 2010 and his auto tranny seems flawless. might be my car

Yeah, never happened once in the 20k miles I've driven it. Maybe you should take it to the dealer and get it checked out?

delusional · 12-07-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Yeah, never happened once in the 20k miles I've driven it. Maybe you should take it to the dealer and get it checked out?

yeah ill probably bring it in sometime next week.

Jordo! · 12-07-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

IMy main complaint was the lag-time between hitting the paddle and the transmission reacting when in manual mode when not going WOT. Is the delay a big deal? Probably not. It just irked me. I fully admit it is probably a personal bias against it.

Uh... it really does shift as fast or faster than 95% of people can possibly clutch in clutch out... recorded with Osiris software. Also faster in average 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, which corroborate with that. Maybe you test drove one that isn't in good repair?

It's also influenced by trans fluid temp and throttle position, so if the fluid was cold and you didn't give it much pedal, it might feel a bit more granny shift-ish.

Also best to have VDC off.

And throttle response on both AT and MT needs to be tweaked.

Anyway, like I said, you can turn the shift speed and firmness waaaay up with Osiris.

I'd try a different one or see if someone around you has a tuned one to play with before you decide... That said, if you prefer a MT, go for it!

LakeShow · 12-07-2011, 10:25 PM

Don't keep it and D and wait for the car to downshift for you, there are paddles there for a reason.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Uh... it really does shift as fast or faster than 95% of people can possibly clutch in clutch out... recorded with Osiris software. Also faster in average 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, which corroborate with that. Maybe you test drove one that isn't in good repair?

It's also influenced by trans fluid temp and throttle position, so if the fluid was cold and you didn't give it much pedal, it might feel a bit more granny shift-ish.

Also best to have VDC off.

And throttle response on both AT and MT needs to be tweaked.

Anyway, like I said, you can turn the shift speed and firmness waaaay up with Osiris.

I'd try a different one or see if someone around you has a tuned one to play with before you decide... That said, if you prefer a MT, go for it!

Any downsides/risks involved in making the shift speed quicker with Osiris?

Jordo! · 12-07-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Any downsides/risks involved in making the shift speed quicker with Osiris?

So far, none found by me or others who have done it.

Will definitely take a bit of getting used to tho'. I have it tuned to bang hard into gear above 1.5 K and 1/4 throttle or more, although it can be tuned however you like.

With remapped throttle responsiveness and retuned shifts it is a wild beast off the line now

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

So far, none found by me or others who have done it.

Will definitely take a bit of getting used to tho'. I have it tuned to bang hard into gear above 1.5 K and 1/4 throttle or more, although it can be tuned however you like.

With remapped throttle responsiveness and retuned shifts it is a wild beast off the line now

And I thought it was a wild beast off the line before......wonder how much this will help my 1/4 mile time. I'm usually near the top of 4th gear by the time I get down the 1/4 mile.

wstar · 12-08-2011, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds!

then it starts jerking alot

Never seen this personally. The only time mine fails to downshift on command is when I click the button too early in a braking zone (RPMs aren't yet low enough to allow a downshift within the rev limit). At which point I try again a split second later and it goes.

wstar · 12-08-2011, 12:20 AM

Re: Osiris tweaks to the 7AT Torque Map: IMHO you should really only do that to adjust for engine torque, and even then on NA we're talking +10-15% over stock values at most. The guideline is to monitor slip under what should be lockup conditions (slip meaning RPMs vs wheel speed isn't stable), and tune the torque values just high enough to reliably kill slip.

When you set them massively higher than they need to be, it does exactly as you describe: every time you click the button it slams everything and kicks you in the butt. You're just causing excess wear all over your drivetrain, and more importantly for track stuff, you're upsetting the balance of the car. The last thing you want while upshifting out of a corner and still pushing to the side a bit is to suddenly shock the drivetrain and rear wheels. It may feel "faster", but the quick, smooth engage at a lower torque map value is better.

wstar · 12-08-2011, 12:22 AM

Re: throttle tuning, see here: Smooth Throttle for UpRev

wstar · 12-08-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Does the transmission have a temp gauge?

Without an additional oil-cooler for the engine, will the trans, or engine-oil overheat first? (Trying to gauge just how much a cooler for the AT is needed)

The ECU knows the trans temp, but unfortunately "normal" OBD-II readers can't see it, just Consult at the dealership. If you do overheat the transmission, there's a failsafe where if the temperature (as measured on the 7AT's mini-ECU) see 293F or higher for 2 full minutes, or a single spike to 302F, it goes into a failsafe mode that cuts your throttle position.

I have yet to hear of anyone actually hitting this in the real world, because before you reach that point, the 7AT will start misbehaving due to elevated temps (gets slushier and slower), and you kinda "know" by the feel that it's getting overworked.

The oil cooler is more important by far, and IMHO you never need the 7AT cooler for regular street driving. It's a must for track driving though.

Mecinoid · 12-08-2011, 01:12 AM

Here's the thing you guys are missing... see bold:

The 370Z’s 7-speed automatic with Downshift Rev Matching (DRM) and Adaptive Shift Control (ASC) is designed to offer quick, manual-like shifting when operated in manual mode with a target time of 0.5 seconds between shifts. Drivers can use the standard paddle shifters or the shift lever. With optimized torque converter lock-up logic, the 7-speed automatic feels very direct, like a manual transmission. The 7-speed’s wide gear ratios offer improved fuel efficiency (versus a 5-speed automatic), while the Adaptive Shift Control is designed to adjust to the driver’s driving style.

You have to drive the car in the mode you want it to perform in for a while. Then, it shifts like you wouldn't believe. I'm sold on the S7 tranny. Even double downshifts come easily if you know what speed you can do them at. No over reving here. Remember it's a little different for a six speed because it shifts very fast through the gears at bottom end to get you going. If you tromp on it and hold it to 7K then shift it shoot you out of the slot like no other. I am truly impressed and I have driven only stick shifts in my sports cars to this point. Back in 2004 I tried the auto in a Z and G and it was way sluggish. This is a completely different beast. Give it time to adapt to your driving style, then let me know what you think. It takes about 20-30mins to adapt as far as I can tell. That is driving through tight twisties.... Then it is a completely different car. 10 mins back in auto mode the car drives like your mom's car.

I'm loving the S7 more and more each day. I always win the stop light battle to the freeway on ramp... By the time I hit the on ramp they are just a spec in my mirror and I have to start looking for the officer because I'm going way too fast.

I have to be careful or this car is going to get me a lot of tickets. It's just too fun to rev to 7K so that I can feel that hard shift into second. At that point, I'm over 60mph and in trouble already...

Enjoy the ride !!! AJ on his seventh Z car now.

Mecinoid · 12-08-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Re: Osiris tweaks to the 7AT Torque Map: IMHO you should really only do that to adjust for engine torque, and even then on NA we're talking +10-15% over stock values at most. The guideline is to monitor slip under what should be lockup conditions (slip meaning RPMs vs wheel speed isn't stable), and tune the torque values just high enough to reliably kill slip.

When you set them massively higher than they need to be, it does exactly as you describe: every time you click the button it slams everything and kicks you in the butt. You're just causing excess wear all over your drivetrain, and more importantly for track stuff, you're upsetting the balance of the car. The last thing you want while upshifting out of a corner and still pushing to the side a bit is to suddenly shock the drivetrain and rear wheels. It may feel "faster", but the quick, smooth engage at a lower torque map value is better.

Your right on as far as I can tell ... You should just leave the program alone and let it adapt... You want to beat on the car racing but, you don't want to break anything. Been there and done that with modified shift programs on autos before. Plus, I believe in stock mode the little bit of slip you get on engagement in the corners helps you from sliding around in VDC off mode. Most of you guys wouldn't think about upshifting a manual half way through a corner. Very nice how that all works...

Jordo! · 12-08-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Re: Osiris tweaks to the 7AT Torque Map: IMHO you should really only do that to adjust for engine torque, and even then on NA we're talking +10-15% over stock values at most. The guideline is to monitor slip under what should be lockup conditions (slip meaning RPMs vs wheel speed isn't stable), and tune the torque values just high enough to reliably kill slip.

When you set them massively higher than they need to be, it does exactly as you describe: every time you click the button it slams everything and kicks you in the butt. You're just causing excess wear all over your drivetrain, and more importantly for track stuff, you're upsetting the balance of the car. The last thing you want while upshifting out of a corner and still pushing to the side a bit is to suddenly shock the drivetrain and rear wheels. It may feel "faster", but the quick, smooth engage at a lower torque map value is better.

If memory serves, I've got it around 25-30% higher across the board after about 1.5K, and it is definitely much faster off the line. 3-4 can be a bit rough, and could potentially upset the chassis if you aren't careful, but I found that a gentle relaxing of throttle input on the shift will cause it to read a slightly lower load value, and soften the shift without losing engine speed or road speed.

That said, I imagine a slightly lower setting would be a good compromise for optimal straight line driving and cornering. Feels good to me as is -- but it's definitely something that would have to be experimented with by anyone tracking the car to get it just right. I think for a road car you can have it set be a bit more aggressively safely.

Also, the faster shifts should put less wear on the clutch bands, while only marginally increasing shock to hard parts. Overall, you probably break about even in overall wear and tear.

12-07-2011, 10:25 PM	#35 (permalink)
LakeShow A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: L.I., NY Posts: 5,307 Drives: Everything Rep Power: 26	Don't keep it and D and wait for the car to downshift for you, there are paddles there for a reason. __________________ \|2013 Audi S4\|Ibis White/Black\|S-Tronic P+\| \|2013 370z\|PearlWhite/Persimmon\|Touring/Sport/Nav\|F.I. CBE 18" CF\| \|Sold\|2011 370z\|Gun Metallic\|Touring/Sport/Nav\|

12-08-2011, 12:20 AM	#40 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Re: Osiris tweaks to the 7AT Torque Map: IMHO you should really only do that to adjust for engine torque, and even then on NA we're talking +10-15% over stock values at most. The guideline is to monitor slip under what should be lockup conditions (slip meaning RPMs vs wheel speed isn't stable), and tune the torque values just high enough to reliably kill slip. When you set them massively higher than they need to be, it does exactly as you describe: every time you click the button it slams everything and kicks you in the butt. You're just causing excess wear all over your drivetrain, and more importantly for track stuff, you're upsetting the balance of the car. The last thing you want while upshifting out of a corner and still pushing to the side a bit is to suddenly shock the drivetrain and rear wheels. It may feel "faster", but the quick, smooth engage at a lower torque map value is better. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-08-2011, 12:22 AM	#41 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Re: throttle tuning, see here: Smooth Throttle for UpRev __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-08-2011, 01:12 AM	#43 (permalink)
Mecinoid Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Discovery Bay Posts: 234 Drives: 16 370Z Sport Wht S7 Rep Power: 6725	Here's the thing you guys are missing... see bold: The 370Z’s 7-speed automatic with Downshift Rev Matching (DRM) and Adaptive Shift Control (ASC) is designed to offer quick, manual-like shifting when operated in manual mode with a target time of 0.5 seconds between shifts. Drivers can use the standard paddle shifters or the shift lever. With optimized torque converter lock-up logic, the 7-speed automatic feels very direct, like a manual transmission. The 7-speed’s wide gear ratios offer improved fuel efficiency (versus a 5-speed automatic), while the Adaptive Shift Control is designed to adjust to the driver’s driving style. You have to drive the car in the mode you want it to perform in for a while. Then, it shifts like you wouldn't believe. I'm sold on the S7 tranny. Even double downshifts come easily if you know what speed you can do them at. No over reving here. Remember it's a little different for a six speed because it shifts very fast through the gears at bottom end to get you going. If you tromp on it and hold it to 7K then shift it shoot you out of the slot like no other. I am truly impressed and I have driven only stick shifts in my sports cars to this point. Back in 2004 I tried the auto in a Z and G and it was way sluggish. This is a completely different beast. Give it time to adapt to your driving style, then let me know what you think. It takes about 20-30mins to adapt as far as I can tell. That is driving through tight twisties.... Then it is a completely different car. 10 mins back in auto mode the car drives like your mom's car. I'm loving the S7 more and more each day. I always win the stop light battle to the freeway on ramp... By the time I hit the on ramp they are just a spec in my mirror and I have to start looking for the officer because I'm going way too fast. I have to be careful or this car is going to get me a lot of tickets. It's just too fun to rev to 7K so that I can feel that hard shift into second. At that point, I'm over 60mph and in trouble already... Enjoy the ride !!! AJ on his seventh Z car now. Last edited by Mecinoid; 12-08-2011 at 01:15 AM.

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