complete engine overhaul questions.

Mike@GTM · 12-22-2011, 06:17 PM

Chii, I apologize for not getting a response to your e-mail. We do receive a very high volume of e-mails and although I searched diligently through my inbox, I couldn't find an e-mail that seemed like it would be from you.

After having read through this thread, I can see you have somewhat more realistic expectations from a naturally aspirated build. As many members here have pointed out, Nissan has done a pretty good job of getting quite a bit of naturally aspirated power out of their V6 with a nice broad power band.

As most people here have pointed out, it doesn't make financial sense to do an all out N/A build on this engine. In fact, we have a G35 here that the owner has dumped copious amounts of money into chasing the big N/A build. In the end, we're putting our supercharger on it because that car has no bottom end torque and just doesn't make a lot of power, especially for all the noise it makes. All bark and no bite.

If you are really set on doing an all out N/A build on a 370Z, we can do it. Sure, it hasn't been done and very few would follow you because the cost/benefit ratio is a real turn-off when compared to FI.

Yes, we can open up the ports for more flow and install larger valves, but remember they have a cost: lost torque at low rpm's. Sure, you'll make up some of that lost port velocity with the added displacement and higher compression, but there is always a trade-off.

Now, I noticed some people have thought of ditching VVEL and going with HR (or God forbid, DE) heads and aggressive cams, but you're really throwing the baby out with the bath water with that move IMO. The VHR heads have a lot of improvements over the HR heads. Better combustion chamber design, better cooling jacket design to increase resistance to detonation and better port design as well. Sure, the VVEL system is complicated and is a bit of an unknown variable when trying to build an all out N/A build, but since it hasn't been attempted, I honestly think it's worth it to see how it plays out...at least once.

I'll be honest with you. I usually steer people in the direction of forced induction because most inquiries related to N/A builds are people trying to get an extra 100bhp for a couple grand. It's just not going to happen. The other argument I hear often is "reliability" and as several people in this thread have said, once you open up that motor, you have lost some of that OEM reliability. Especially when you start running higher compression and spinning the motor to high enough rpm to start making power.

Currently, we are working on a project in our shop that the customer put no limit on the expense to build a 500hp N/A engine. Here are some of the specifics of the engine:

2008 350Z HR
GTM Competition Engine with 3.8L of displacement and 9,000rpm redline and 14:1 compression.
Custom Cams
All variable cam timing is completely disabled
Individual Throttle Bodies
Dry Sump Oiling system

This engine alone is $35,000 and the whole project is in the high $50k range. It is a full race engine build and can only drink race gas and will have a peaky, narrow power band. Such a build is not street-able at all.

That's to give you an idea of what it takes to get 500hp at the flywheel on a naturally aspirated V6.

VQStryker · 12-22-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

ive sent a few emails to GTM as well, so far its been 2 weeks and no reply. well, good news on the job so far. might become a state trooper, out of 2500 aplicants 80 of us were chosen to go to the next step. physical test, knowledge test, and a 600 question psych eval...... it took like 10 hours and sucked a lot. But if i pass that, then the polygraph, and background "not a problem prior military" i will be goin to the academy in april. that being said there will be 5.5 months where i CANT spend any money since we dont get to leave lol. so i will have a metric **** ton of cash to drop all at once on the project and get it off the ground.

Got to be patient when you email GTM, they are very busy but will reply to you and answer your questions.

I thought a 300 question phyc test was bad! good job and good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

This engine alone is $35,000 and the whole project is in the high $50k range. It is a full race engine build and can only drink race gas and will have a peaky, narrow power band. Such a build is not street-able at all.

That's to give you an idea of what it takes to get 500hp at the flywheel on a naturally aspirated V6.

thats some bank son.

Jeffblue · 12-22-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

This engine alone is $35,000 and the whole project is in the high $50k range.

Put it on my tab at Harry's

m4a1mustang · 12-22-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

Put it on my tab at Harry's

Red__Zed · 12-22-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

Put it on my tab at Harry's

Trollololol

FL 4Motion · 12-23-2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

This project suddenly sounds less appealing to me for some reason.

don't be a quitter.

Shamu · 12-23-2011, 10:54 PM

Did someone say high output NA VQ37?

Loshak AM Performance 370Z Laguna Seca Grand AM Qual laps - YouTube

m4a1mustang · 12-22-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Chii, I apologize for not getting a response to your e-mail. We do receive a very high volume of e-mails and although I searched diligently through my inbox, I couldn't find an e-mail that seemed like it would be from you.

After having read through this thread, I can see you have somewhat more realistic expectations from a naturally aspirated build. As many members here have pointed out, Nissan has done a pretty good job of getting quite a bit of naturally aspirated power out of their V6 with a nice broad power band.

As most people here have pointed out, it doesn't make financial sense to do an all out N/A build on this engine. In fact, we have a G35 here that the owner has dumped copious amounts of money into chasing the big N/A build. In the end, we're putting our supercharger on it because that car has no bottom end torque and just doesn't make a lot of power, especially for all the noise it makes. All bark and no bite.

If you are really set on doing an all out N/A build on a 370Z, we can do it. Sure, it hasn't been done and very few would follow you because the cost/benefit ratio is a real turn-off when compared to FI.

Yes, we can open up the ports for more flow and install larger valves, but remember they have a cost: lost torque at low rpm's. Sure, you'll make up some of that lost port velocity with the added displacement and higher compression, but there is always a trade-off.

Now, I noticed some people have thought of ditching VVEL and going with HR (or God forbid, DE) heads and aggressive cams, but you're really throwing the baby out with the bath water with that move IMO. The VHR heads have a lot of improvements over the HR heads. Better combustion chamber design, better cooling jacket design to increase resistance to detonation and better port design as well. Sure, the VVEL system is complicated and is a bit of an unknown variable when trying to build an all out N/A build, but since it hasn't been attempted, I honestly think it's worth it to see how it plays out...at least once.

I'll be honest with you. I usually steer people in the direction of forced induction because most inquiries related to N/A builds are people trying to get an extra 100bhp for a couple grand. It's just not going to happen. The other argument I hear often is "reliability" and as several people in this thread have said, once you open up that motor, you have lost some of that OEM reliability. Especially when you start running higher compression and spinning the motor to high enough rpm to start making power.

Currently, we are working on a project in our shop that the customer put no limit on the expense to build a 500hp N/A engine. Here are some of the specifics of the engine:

2008 350Z HR
GTM Competition Engine with 3.8L of displacement and 9,000rpm redline and 14:1 compression.
Custom Cams
All variable cam timing is completely disabled
Individual Throttle Bodies
Dry Sump Oiling system

This engine alone is $35,000 and the whole project is in the high $50k range. It is a full race engine build and can only drink race gas and will have a peaky, narrow power band. Such a build is not street-able at all.

That's to give you an idea of what it takes to get 500hp at the flywheel on a naturally aspirated V6.

Mike, props to you for this post.

KaienZ34 · 12-22-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Mike, props to you for this post.

..reps to mike

FL 4Motion · 12-22-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Mike, props to you for this post.

I dunno why, but reading that post made me want want a crazy n/a build even more!

KaienZ34 · 12-22-2011, 10:26 PM

50k and it's all yours.

m4a1mustang · 12-22-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I dunno why, but reading that post made me want want a crazy n/a build even more!

Let's do it

FL 4Motion · 12-22-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Let's do it

right on, you put up the $$$, and I'll put up the car.

KingZee · 12-22-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

right on, you put up the $$$, and I'll put up the car.

makes sense

m4a1mustang · 12-22-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

right on, you put up the $$$, and I'll put up the car.

This project suddenly sounds less appealing to me for some reason.

12-22-2011, 10:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
KaienZ34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: LA. not L.a. Posts: 21,652 Drives: Z34 Tour/Sport Rep Power: 178	50k and it's all yours. __________________ *"These Violent Delights Have Violent Ends"* http://www.the370z.com/members/kaienz34-albums-z34.html

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12-22-2011, 06:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike@GTM Not an active Vendor. DO NOT BUY Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: California Posts: 391 Drives: '13 Hot Lava FR-S Rep Power: 17	Chii, I apologize for not getting a response to your e-mail. We do receive a very high volume of e-mails and although I searched diligently through my inbox, I couldn't find an e-mail that seemed like it would be from you. After having read through this thread, I can see you have somewhat more realistic expectations from a naturally aspirated build. As many members here have pointed out, Nissan has done a pretty good job of getting quite a bit of naturally aspirated power out of their V6 with a nice broad power band. As most people here have pointed out, it doesn't make financial sense to do an all out N/A build on this engine. In fact, we have a G35 here that the owner has dumped copious amounts of money into chasing the big N/A build. In the end, we're putting our supercharger on it because that car has no bottom end torque and just doesn't make a lot of power, especially for all the noise it makes. All bark and no bite. If you are really set on doing an all out N/A build on a 370Z, we can do it. Sure, it hasn't been done and very few would follow you because the cost/benefit ratio is a real turn-off when compared to FI. Yes, we can open up the ports for more flow and install larger valves, but remember they have a cost: lost torque at low rpm's. Sure, you'll make up some of that lost port velocity with the added displacement and higher compression, but there is always a trade-off. Now, I noticed some people have thought of ditching VVEL and going with HR (or God forbid, DE) heads and aggressive cams, but you're really throwing the baby out with the bath water with that move IMO. The VHR heads have a lot of improvements over the HR heads. Better combustion chamber design, better cooling jacket design to increase resistance to detonation and better port design as well. Sure, the VVEL system is complicated and is a bit of an unknown variable when trying to build an all out N/A build, but since it hasn't been attempted, I honestly think it's worth it to see how it plays out...at least once. I'll be honest with you. I usually steer people in the direction of forced induction because most inquiries related to N/A builds are people trying to get an extra 100bhp for a couple grand. It's just not going to happen. The other argument I hear often is "reliability" and as several people in this thread have said, once you open up that motor, you have lost some of that OEM reliability. Especially when you start running higher compression and spinning the motor to high enough rpm to start making power. Currently, we are working on a project in our shop that the customer put no limit on the expense to build a 500hp N/A engine. Here are some of the specifics of the engine: 2008 350Z HR GTM Competition Engine with 3.8L of displacement and 9,000rpm redline and 14:1 compression. Custom Cams All variable cam timing is completely disabled Individual Throttle Bodies Dry Sump Oiling system This engine alone is $35,000 and the whole project is in the high $50k range. It is a full race engine build and can only drink race gas and will have a peaky, narrow power band. Such a build is not street-able at all. That's to give you an idea of what it takes to get 500hp at the flywheel on a naturally aspirated V6.

12-23-2011, 10:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 20	Did someone say high output NA VQ37? Loshak AM Performance 370Z Laguna Seca Grand AM Qual laps - YouTube