Oil type and temp Questions (houston area)

PaulZ370 · 09-10-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy'sz

yeah sonic i run mobil1 also. My dad has a 350 and has 170000 on it with nothin but mobil1. it definitely is a great oil. My car runs hot, i mean damn hot without the cooler. just cruisin down the road with ambient temps at 105 it was 230 and just very little spirited driving got me to 250. Im talkin 30-45 seconds.

Same situation here with the heat in my 370Z. however, I think the car was still new and the tolerances were still pretty tight. I was in Houston running around on the interstates there at an ambient of around 101-103, and I was spiking temps of 240-245 with just a little sprint of about 30-40 seconds just as you mentioned. I did install a 19 row oil cooler (not tracking the car), and my temps now are running in the 180-200 tops, even with high ambient temps and very spirited driving. The downside is with the morning mid fifties ambients, I can barely get the temps up to 180 for the 7 mile drive to work. I will need to blank the cooler off for the winter for sure now with cooler temps/maybe some freezing ambients as well.

I run Valvoline full synthetic 10W30 with a Purolator PureOne filter by the way.

wstar · 09-10-2011, 07:57 AM

As discussed recently elsewhere, be sure you're doing something to get up to 220-ish on a very regular basis. Otherwise the condensation water in your engine doesn't boil off. Instead it mixes with the oil and the net effect is to turn the oil acidic prematurely.

MattP725 · 09-10-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

As discussed recently elsewhere, be sure you're doing something to get up to 220-ish on a very regular basis. Otherwise the condensation water in your engine doesn't boil off. Instead it mixes with the oil and the net effect is to turn the oil acidic prematurely.

I wouldn't really worry about this... the oil lasts 3 months max and generally gets heavier as it wears so even if water somehow enters the pan it isn't going to thin the oil too bad.

Also with the spring, the point I was trying to make was buying a 200 deg spring vs a 180 won't change anything... if you can't get to 180 where the original spring allows for full flow then a 200 will certainly not help. If you were trying to keep your oil at say 200 when it was consistently at 180 then that would be a dif story. At 160 both springs will just keep the thermostatic plate partially open.

It's simple... get a smaller cooler or block off plate. That is all that you can do to get your temps up to the proper place if you're not hitting High 100s.

Also if I ran 200-220 stock I would never have bought the cooler... I was idling at 220 and hitting 240-260 under some increased load. Never limped but didn't want to risk it. My tune took an extra hour while they let the engine cool off... not idea.

AggieDriver · 09-14-2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

College Station huh? You sure your car is not on fire?

Seriously, run your car for a few thousand mile before doing anything. I've seen several people say that after breakin, cars run a bit cooler and use less oil.

Car was bought as an 09 with 25k give or take. Break in was 20k ago. And since the fires are in Bastrop and Magnolia areas and I've been out to both helping friends move horses. Sucks, but College Station isn't on fire. It would appear that reading comprehension was lacking both when you read my post and when you read about where the fires are/were.

As an update:
Tonight making the trip to Houston and back I was seeing 235-245 going down at 4-5:30 and staying right around 225-230 on the way back between 9:30 and 11. Didn't do anything stupid, just cruising in 6th, well under 100, and not on it hard at all. To me, that's a need for a cooler when it doesn't get under 220 at night on the highway.

As of yet, no one has convinced me otherwise. Changing the oil hasn't made a bit of difference as far as I can tell, as I'm still seeing the high temps.

I appreciate all the good info here.... but

Could someone please point me to a good shop that would put in an aftermarket cooler in the Houston/College Station area?

And could someone please answer me weather or not I should be putting in a sandwich plate if I may be driving this car in colder climates/the coldest days we get here? Does that depend on the size of the cooler?

wstar · 09-14-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

I wouldn't really worry about this... the oil lasts 3 months max and generally gets heavier as it wears so even if water somehow enters the pan it isn't going to thin the oil too bad.

It's not about thinning the oil, and water doesn't "somehow" enter the pan...

The air around you contains humidity (especially in the Houston area). When the hot engine cools off overnight, the humidity in the air condenses out on the metal surfaces inside your engine (just like the dew you see on your car windows if you park outside) and drips into the oil, adding a small amount of water to your oil every time.

You also get fuel and combustion byproducts into your oil as part of its normal operation, via blowby on the piston rings. When those mix with water in the oil, they create an acid, which in turn will eat away at oil seals and promote engine corrosion.

Getting your oil regularly hot enough to boil off the condensed water slows down that process a lot, vs never getting up to temp and letting the oil become rapidly acidic. Water boils at 212F, so generally my target for a safety margin would be to ensure you get a few minutes of 220F oil temps on the gauge to boil off condensation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AggieDriver

As an update:
Tonight making the trip to Houston and back I was seeing 235-245 going down at 4-5:30 and staying right around 225-230 on the way back between 9:30 and 11. Didn't do anything stupid, just cruising in 6th, well under 100, and not on it hard at all. To me, that's a need for a cooler when it doesn't get under 220 at night on the highway.

As of yet, no one has convinced me otherwise. Changing the oil hasn't made a bit of difference as far as I can tell, as I'm still seeing the high temps.

If that's as hot as you can get it (and we're still in pretty bad summer heat), it's not strictly necessary to run a cooler. Those temps are within range. If you fear you will get the temps even higher driving in some other way (running the car harder), then try it and find out. I think you'll be surprised by what factors stabilize the temps and how hard it is to reach 260 on the street.

Quote:

And could someone please answer me weather or not I should be putting in a sandwich plate if I may be driving this car in colder climates/the coldest days we get here? Does that depend on the size of the cooler?

Even if you were exclusively driving in a very hot climate, I would get the Mocal sandwich plate. As noted above, it doesn't make a ton of difference to highway oil temps. However, you shouldn't be pushing the engine on cold oil, and the plate will save you a few minutes of your 10-15 minute wait for the oil to come up to temp when you start in the morning.

Aside from the Mocal plate, you may also want to make some blockoff plates for the cooler to use during the winter on highway drives, so you're not making the whole drive at like 170F, which is just bad. Again, as said above, overcooling the oil is bad too.

roy'sz · 09-14-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It's not about thinning the oil, and water doesn't "somehow" enter the pan...

The air around you contains humidity (especially in the Houston area). When the hot engine cools off overnight, the humidity in the air condenses out on the metal surfaces inside your engine (just like the dew you see on your car windows if you park outside) and drips into the oil, adding a small amount of water to your oil every time.

You also get fuel and combustion byproducts into your oil as part of its normal operation, via blowby on the piston rings. When those mix with water in the oil, they create an acid, which in turn will eat away at oil seals and promote engine corrosion.

Getting your oil regularly hot enough to boil off the condensed water slows down that process a lot, vs never getting up to temp and letting the oil become rapidly acidic. Water boils at 212F, so generally my target for a safety margin would be to ensure you get a few minutes of 220F oil temps on the gauge to boil off condensation.

If that's as hot as you can get it (and we're still in pretty bad summer heat), it's not strictly necessary to run a cooler. Those temps are within range. If you fear you will get the temps even higher driving in some other way (running the car harder), then try it and find out. I think you'll be surprised by what factors stabilize the temps and how hard it is to reach 260 on the street.

Even if you were exclusively driving in a very hot climate, I would get the Mocal sandwich plate. As noted above, it doesn't make a ton of difference to highway oil temps. However, you shouldn't be pushing the engine on cold oil, and the plate will save you a few minutes of your 10-15 minute wait for the oil to come up to temp when you start in the morning.

Aside from the Mocal plate, you may also want to make some blockoff plates for the cooler to use during the winter on highway drives, so you're not making the whole drive at like 170F, which is just bad. Again, as said above, overcooling the oil is bad too.

ya don't neet your engine to get up to 212 to get the moisture out of the crankcase. Some people know just enough to get themselves in trouble. Do what you feel is necessary.

wstar · 09-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy'sz

ya don't neet your engine to get up to 212 to get the moisture out of the crankcase. Some people know just enough to get themselves in trouble. Do what you feel is necessary.

Are you implying that the water somehow boils off at less than 212F, and/or that 212F is an unhealthily high temperature for engine oil? Lay off the character attacks and bring some data :P

Lug · 09-14-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AggieDriver

Car was bought as an 09 with 25k give or take. Break in was 20k ago. And since the fires are in Bastrop and Magnolia areas and I've been out to both helping friends move horses. Sucks, but College Station isn't on fire. It would appear that reading comprehension was lacking both when you read my post and when you read about where the fires are/were.

As an update:
Tonight making the trip to Houston and back I was seeing 235-245 going down at 4-5:30 and staying right around 225-230 on the way back between 9:30 and 11. Didn't do anything stupid, just cruising in 6th, well under 100, and not on it hard at all. To me, that's a need for a cooler when it doesn't get under 220 at night on the highway.

As of yet, no one has convinced me otherwise. Changing the oil hasn't made a bit of difference as far as I can tell, as I'm still seeing the high temps.

I appreciate all the good info here.... but

Could someone please point me to a good shop that would put in an aftermarket cooler in the Houston/College Station area?

And could someone please answer me weather or not I should be putting in a sandwich plate if I may be driving this car in colder climates/the coldest days we get here? Does that depend on the size of the cooler?

I've heard really good things about jTran Studios for Z cars in general but haven't had any work by them myself.

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09-10-2011, 07:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	As discussed recently elsewhere, be sure you're doing something to get up to 220-ish on a very regular basis. Otherwise the condensation water in your engine doesn't boil off. Instead it mixes with the oil and the net effect is to turn the oil acidic prematurely. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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